1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,110 We're on a worldwide search to see what inclusive education looks like. 2 00:00:04,110 --> 00:00:07,350 So Blackboard Ally is going on tour for 2019, 3 00:00:07,350 --> 00:00:10,560 visiting campuses around the globe to learn how they're tackling 4 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:13,140 their toughest accessibility challenges and 5 00:00:13,140 --> 00:00:16,290 improving the learning experience for all their students. 6 00:00:16,290 --> 00:00:22,635 All right, it's great to be back with another installment of the BB Ally podcast series. 7 00:00:22,635 --> 00:00:24,000 During our last episode, 8 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,080 I had the chance to check in with the team at Lesley University in Cambridge 9 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:32,445 Massachusetts where social justice was the theme of the day. 10 00:00:32,445 --> 00:00:36,090 It's a campus that's been committed to social justice since its founding 11 00:00:36,090 --> 00:00:40,025 and that's a theme that's going to continue in today's episode. 12 00:00:40,025 --> 00:00:45,180 I'm here in the Bay Area California at the birthplace of the Free Speech Movement, 13 00:00:45,180 --> 00:00:47,760 the University of California at Berkeley. 14 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:51,435 We're both at the campus and in the surrounding cities. 15 00:00:51,435 --> 00:00:54,660 The advocacy for people with disabilities and for 16 00:00:54,660 --> 00:00:59,070 historically marginalized communities is really at the core of the campus, 17 00:00:59,070 --> 00:01:01,035 the core of the community culture. 18 00:01:01,035 --> 00:01:04,680 So I'm very fortunate to have the opportunity first to have 19 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:10,050 a conversation with accessibility evangelist Lucy Greco a.k.a. 20 00:01:10,050 --> 00:01:13,080 "The Punisher", she earned that nickname both for 21 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:15,540 her fierce and relentless commitment to 22 00:01:15,540 --> 00:01:20,365 accessibility advocacy as well as for her achievements on the global court. 23 00:01:20,365 --> 00:01:23,490 Lucy represented candidate in the Paralympics, 24 00:01:23,490 --> 00:01:26,430 helped bring home a bronze medal with her rocket arm. 25 00:01:26,430 --> 00:01:31,620 So I'm very fortunate to have a chance to sit down with a true accessibility champion, 26 00:01:31,620 --> 00:01:34,500 somebody who's been bulldozing barriers both in 27 00:01:34,500 --> 00:01:39,000 her personal life as well as for the students she works with here on campus. 28 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:42,915 Lucy also serves as a special advisor to the Blackboard Ally team. 29 00:01:42,915 --> 00:01:46,980 She's brought her unique knowledge and expertise about accessibility to 30 00:01:46,980 --> 00:01:51,150 help inform some of the early designs and features of Blackboard Ally. 31 00:01:51,150 --> 00:01:55,185 So we'll get a chance to hear from her about how Blackboard Ally is 32 00:01:55,185 --> 00:01:59,505 impacting accessibility at the campus here at UC Berkeley. 33 00:01:59,505 --> 00:02:02,400 So I'm very excited to have the opportunity to sit 34 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,550 down with two inclusive learning champions; 35 00:02:05,550 --> 00:02:09,330 Lucy Greco and Dr. Joseph Feria-Galicia. 36 00:02:09,330 --> 00:02:11,040 I am Lucy Greco, 37 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:15,235 I am an Assistive Technology Specialist for UC Berkeley. 38 00:02:15,235 --> 00:02:17,820 My title is assistant to access 39 00:02:17,820 --> 00:02:21,975 technology evangelist and I lead the accessibility initiative for UC. 40 00:02:21,975 --> 00:02:25,845 How did you get involved in the accessibility game? 41 00:02:25,845 --> 00:02:29,700 So I have been in the accessibility game for many many years. 42 00:02:29,700 --> 00:02:33,030 I am totally blind and I, of course, 43 00:02:33,030 --> 00:02:36,600 was interested in access technology and assistive technology for 44 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:40,830 myself when I was a student going through school and 45 00:02:40,830 --> 00:02:44,655 I became an expert in the field 46 00:02:44,655 --> 00:02:49,860 by just using and accessing and working with products myself. 47 00:02:49,860 --> 00:02:53,880 What were some of the barriers that you experienced growing up as a student? 48 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:57,780 So the biggest barrier was access to information, 49 00:02:57,780 --> 00:03:02,385 being able to go to the library like every other student and access articles. 50 00:03:02,385 --> 00:03:04,380 In the days where I was going to school, 51 00:03:04,380 --> 00:03:09,135 we still had periodical reference guides and everything was on paper. 52 00:03:09,135 --> 00:03:11,730 Being able to go through and get that kind of 53 00:03:11,730 --> 00:03:15,810 information without assistance from somebody else, 54 00:03:15,810 --> 00:03:20,625 that was restricted to the 9-5 when the reference librarian was available. 55 00:03:20,625 --> 00:03:24,930 As computers became more used and 56 00:03:24,930 --> 00:03:29,895 technology became more digital those barriers slowly dwindled. 57 00:03:29,895 --> 00:03:33,860 Things like STEM were very very difficult to access, 58 00:03:33,860 --> 00:03:37,845 there was no digitizing of STEM content early on. 59 00:03:37,845 --> 00:03:42,870 I think today we have a lot better access to those topics and areas. 60 00:03:42,870 --> 00:03:45,930 Tell me a little bit about the history here at 61 00:03:45,930 --> 00:03:49,155 Berkeley around supporting just people with disability. 62 00:03:49,155 --> 00:03:52,965 This is like the home of where some of that stuff started, right? 63 00:03:52,965 --> 00:03:57,090 Yes. So early on in the late 60s, 64 00:03:57,090 --> 00:04:03,090 there was a group of about four or five different students who had various disabilities. 65 00:04:03,090 --> 00:04:08,025 The most famous of which was a gentleman called Ed Roberts 66 00:04:08,025 --> 00:04:13,605 and Ed Roberts was a polio victim who used an iron lung for, 67 00:04:13,605 --> 00:04:16,530 I think, about two thirds to three quarters of 68 00:04:16,530 --> 00:04:21,570 every day and was a young man who came here to Berkeley to go to 69 00:04:21,570 --> 00:04:30,105 school and Berkeley was challenged to work with him and accommodate him and his peers. 70 00:04:30,105 --> 00:04:32,760 I think there was a gentleman who was blind in the group, 71 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:36,330 a couple of other chair users who weren't, 72 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:39,490 various levels of disability 73 00:04:39,490 --> 00:04:44,235 and this group of people became known as the rolling disabled. 74 00:04:44,235 --> 00:04:49,020 They came to Berkeley and they challenged our image of people with disability, 75 00:04:49,020 --> 00:04:53,040 they challenged our understanding of the capabilities of 76 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:57,140 people with disabilities and they won a lot of victories, 77 00:04:57,140 --> 00:05:00,940 they won the right to be able to go to what classes they wanted when they wanted, 78 00:05:00,940 --> 00:05:04,700 they won the right to demand that the classrooms be 79 00:05:04,700 --> 00:05:08,855 made accessible and started the whole disability rights movement. 80 00:05:08,855 --> 00:05:14,870 Berkeley soon became known as kind of a Mecca for people with disabilities, 81 00:05:14,870 --> 00:05:17,360 we actually had a really good program for 82 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:21,290 many many years where students with disabilities would come 83 00:05:21,290 --> 00:05:24,470 here specifically because we were more welcoming and more 84 00:05:24,470 --> 00:05:28,295 open and had more surfaces for people with disabilities. 85 00:05:28,295 --> 00:05:32,210 This was our disabled students residents program where students 86 00:05:32,210 --> 00:05:36,320 who may have had physical disabilities of 87 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,920 various degrees who had been taken care of by mom and 88 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:43,969 dad their entire lives or their entire realm of their disability, 89 00:05:43,969 --> 00:05:47,435 say they were injured at age 10 something like that, 90 00:05:47,435 --> 00:05:49,370 they would come here not only to go to 91 00:05:49,370 --> 00:05:51,470 school but they would come here to learn how to become 92 00:05:51,470 --> 00:05:56,480 independent disabled adults and learn how to work through the system of disability, 93 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,180 learn how to get the appropriate supports, 94 00:05:59,180 --> 00:06:02,105 everything from how to hire a personal care attendant 95 00:06:02,105 --> 00:06:07,225 to getting a master's of business or a PhD in economics, 96 00:06:07,225 --> 00:06:11,390 all the rest of those, all those things were a big package at 97 00:06:11,390 --> 00:06:15,770 Berkeley and those students with disabilities were always welcomed and very friendly. 98 00:06:15,770 --> 00:06:19,295 So because of that, we had a very rich disabled community. 99 00:06:19,295 --> 00:06:24,530 There's a certain condition of causing disabilities where we actually have 100 00:06:24,530 --> 00:06:27,770 the highest percentage of people living with that disability in 101 00:06:27,770 --> 00:06:31,805 Berkeley because they all came here to school because we could support them. 102 00:06:31,805 --> 00:06:33,995 How long have you been here at Berkeley? 103 00:06:33,995 --> 00:06:37,015 I've been here for almost 15 years now. 104 00:06:37,015 --> 00:06:39,270 What was it like when you first got here? 105 00:06:39,270 --> 00:06:40,530 How digital were things? 106 00:06:40,530 --> 00:06:43,210 Things were just on the verge of becoming digital. 107 00:06:43,210 --> 00:06:48,125 I was hired to be an access technology consultant for the students, 108 00:06:48,125 --> 00:06:52,550 my role was working with the students specifically and helping evaluate 109 00:06:52,550 --> 00:06:57,460 their needs and then helping them match them to assistive technologies. 110 00:06:57,460 --> 00:06:59,690 So a student would come in 111 00:06:59,690 --> 00:07:04,085 who didn't have the use of their hands and I could help them determine, 112 00:07:04,085 --> 00:07:06,545 did we give them on-screen keyboard, 113 00:07:06,545 --> 00:07:09,290 did we give them a use of eye gaze, 114 00:07:09,290 --> 00:07:12,350 did we pair them with speech dictation software, 115 00:07:12,350 --> 00:07:15,170 so it was my role to look at their ability, 116 00:07:15,170 --> 00:07:17,480 pair them with assistive technology to make 117 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:22,150 their journey through Berkeley go better and go more effectively. 118 00:07:22,150 --> 00:07:24,490 To jump to the next part of that question. 119 00:07:24,490 --> 00:07:25,805 How is it different? 120 00:07:25,805 --> 00:07:30,380 Today I'm actually working at a more systemic level instead of working with 121 00:07:30,380 --> 00:07:34,820 students firefighting individual problems and individual cases, 122 00:07:34,820 --> 00:07:38,840 I'm now working to improve the environment overall for these students. 123 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:41,600 So that when they come here they have 124 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:44,540 less of a challenge with each and individual program or 125 00:07:44,540 --> 00:07:47,450 every course that the courses are designed 126 00:07:47,450 --> 00:07:51,050 excessively and everything works on an accessible basis. 127 00:07:51,050 --> 00:07:54,410 So then when they know how to use their own technology they don't have 128 00:07:54,410 --> 00:07:57,730 to be challenged by every single phase of process. 129 00:07:57,730 --> 00:08:02,975 What has been one of the most challenging parts of your job as things have gone digital? 130 00:08:02,975 --> 00:08:07,745 Getting the news and getting the information into the hands that need it the most. 131 00:08:07,745 --> 00:08:10,970 Getting people like faculty to know 132 00:08:10,970 --> 00:08:14,750 about the tools that they could use to become more accessible, 133 00:08:14,750 --> 00:08:18,425 getting them to even realize that they were accessible or were not accessible. 134 00:08:18,425 --> 00:08:21,455 That's always been a big barrier. 135 00:08:21,455 --> 00:08:25,495 People in my industry have always worked at 136 00:08:25,495 --> 00:08:28,890 a firefighting type of role where we were basically 137 00:08:28,890 --> 00:08:32,310 drinking from the fire hose and trying to catch up and we had 138 00:08:32,310 --> 00:08:33,900 a student who had this problem and they were on 139 00:08:33,900 --> 00:08:36,090 this course and we had to fix that for them. 140 00:08:36,090 --> 00:08:39,825 The biggest problem has always been getting ahead of the problem, 141 00:08:39,825 --> 00:08:43,720 getting to faculty and trying to fix the problems before they happen. 142 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:47,550 Being able to help people realize what 143 00:08:47,550 --> 00:08:51,825 accessibility means is actually really the key point. 144 00:08:51,825 --> 00:08:54,835 Having people actually recognize inaccessible and 145 00:08:54,835 --> 00:08:59,685 accessible before the problem occurs has been a primary problem. 146 00:08:59,685 --> 00:09:02,000 Maybe just going back broadly, 147 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:06,540 so are you seeing now accessibility becoming more a part 148 00:09:06,540 --> 00:09:11,455 of the conversation with faculty and or with the course experience? 149 00:09:11,455 --> 00:09:13,825 I always of course would like it to be more, 150 00:09:13,825 --> 00:09:17,810 but definitely faculty are interested, faculty are engaged. 151 00:09:17,810 --> 00:09:23,790 Faculty aren't aware of where the inaccessible barriers lay at this point and time. 152 00:09:23,790 --> 00:09:26,010 But when they are, they jump on, 153 00:09:26,010 --> 00:09:27,360 and they grab it, 154 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:30,585 and they embrace that whole thing. 155 00:09:30,585 --> 00:09:33,220 Faculty really care about accessibility. 156 00:09:33,220 --> 00:09:36,150 Something I've been known to say before is, 157 00:09:36,150 --> 00:09:41,715 faculty teach to teach everyone and give everyone the information they can. 158 00:09:41,715 --> 00:09:44,785 When they realize that a person with a disability might not get 159 00:09:44,785 --> 00:09:48,690 that information and might not have access to the information, 160 00:09:48,690 --> 00:09:51,465 they want to have that be accessible. 161 00:09:51,465 --> 00:09:54,960 They just don't know. They're not aware that what they're doing is 162 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:58,350 blocking somebody from being engaged in their course. 163 00:09:58,350 --> 00:10:01,845 As soon as we introduce something to them, they love it. 164 00:10:01,845 --> 00:10:09,385 They embrace that whole idea of teaching and reaching more at the same time. 165 00:10:09,385 --> 00:10:14,415 What's been the biggest challenge for faculty in making accessible content? 166 00:10:14,415 --> 00:10:18,000 I think the tools that they've been provided are limited 167 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:22,470 and I think as we provide tools and resources for faculty, 168 00:10:22,470 --> 00:10:24,640 it will become easier for them. 169 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:29,145 We had a study here just done just last year on 170 00:10:29,145 --> 00:10:34,890 the authoring tools themselves that people are using to create content. 171 00:10:34,890 --> 00:10:38,725 The big problem is authoring tools themselves may have 172 00:10:38,725 --> 00:10:42,510 accessibility features built into them to make accessible content 173 00:10:42,510 --> 00:10:45,130 but they're not the default setting. 174 00:10:45,380 --> 00:10:49,160 If you go into Microsoft Word to create 175 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:52,810 accessible documents and all the accessibility checks 176 00:10:52,810 --> 00:10:54,745 are not on by default. 177 00:10:54,745 --> 00:10:58,380 Actually, labeling the graphics which Microsoft Word 178 00:10:58,380 --> 00:11:01,665 does really well now is not on by default. 179 00:11:01,665 --> 00:11:05,820 So the big barrier is knowing where to go to change 180 00:11:05,820 --> 00:11:07,830 the problem and faculty didn't even 181 00:11:07,830 --> 00:11:10,375 know that there was a problem that they needed to change. 182 00:11:10,375 --> 00:11:13,530 So getting the information to them about where 183 00:11:13,530 --> 00:11:18,750 the barriers are and then helping them find the path, the easy path, 184 00:11:18,750 --> 00:11:21,295 that's going to be the challenge is the easy path 185 00:11:21,295 --> 00:11:25,170 because even though accessibility is a very easy thing, 186 00:11:25,170 --> 00:11:27,485 sometimes that pathway can be blocked. 187 00:11:27,485 --> 00:11:30,760 Do you see that a lot with publisher content? 188 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:35,740 Yes. Some publishers create content that's inaccessible by default, 189 00:11:35,740 --> 00:11:38,460 and you have to go through all kinds of hoops 190 00:11:38,460 --> 00:11:41,670 and loops to get to that content in an accessible way. 191 00:11:41,670 --> 00:11:44,250 More and more publishers are actually thinking about 192 00:11:44,250 --> 00:11:47,955 accessibility and working on their accessibility. 193 00:11:47,955 --> 00:11:50,910 So we are getting improvements. 194 00:11:50,910 --> 00:11:52,045 We're not there yet. 195 00:11:52,045 --> 00:11:55,045 I think the longer we work at this and the longer 196 00:11:55,045 --> 00:11:59,100 we talk about the default experience being accessible, 197 00:11:59,100 --> 00:12:01,935 we will actually achieve this. 198 00:12:01,935 --> 00:12:06,900 In a few years, I think we're going to have the scales tip in the other direction. 199 00:12:06,900 --> 00:12:11,040 But right now, we're still very balanced with some publishers are making good content, 200 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,145 some publishers are making bad content, 201 00:12:13,145 --> 00:12:16,405 some publishers are making great choices for accessibility, 202 00:12:16,405 --> 00:12:18,210 others are making bad choices. 203 00:12:18,210 --> 00:12:22,230 What about, let's shift gears a little bit more on the theory stuff. 204 00:12:22,230 --> 00:12:26,680 The relationship between accessibility and universal design, 205 00:12:26,680 --> 00:12:28,530 universal design for learning. 206 00:12:28,530 --> 00:12:32,400 So universal design for learning is an excellent concept 207 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:37,055 because it talks about the fact that everyone should be able to learn in their own way. 208 00:12:37,055 --> 00:12:43,310 However, people get fixated on it sometimes as a way to get content accessible 209 00:12:43,310 --> 00:12:50,100 and I want to remind people that for content to be universally accessible, 210 00:12:50,100 --> 00:12:56,240 it actually has to start with accessible content because you can't talk about ways 211 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:59,310 to teach content and expect that 212 00:12:59,310 --> 00:13:02,670 those ways will be the way you make it content accessible. 213 00:13:02,670 --> 00:13:06,565 If you were presenting a file as a picture 214 00:13:06,565 --> 00:13:09,630 and you're presenting a file as a video 215 00:13:09,630 --> 00:13:12,270 and you're presenting the content in four different ways, 216 00:13:12,270 --> 00:13:15,390 if every single one of those ways is inaccessible, 217 00:13:15,390 --> 00:13:17,455 you've got universal design, 218 00:13:17,455 --> 00:13:20,445 you've got something that works for multiple different people. 219 00:13:20,445 --> 00:13:23,910 You have to start with accessible content and then move to 220 00:13:23,910 --> 00:13:29,415 the universal design or the universal design for education. 221 00:13:29,415 --> 00:13:33,300 I dread when people start talking about 222 00:13:33,300 --> 00:13:37,530 UDL because they think that UDL is the answer for accessibility, 223 00:13:37,530 --> 00:13:42,405 and I think UDL requires accessibility before it can work. 224 00:13:42,405 --> 00:13:46,470 Tell me a little bit about your involvement with Ally? 225 00:13:46,470 --> 00:13:50,550 So I've been involved with allies since very early on. 226 00:13:50,550 --> 00:13:53,850 In that, the founders came to me early on and said, 227 00:13:53,850 --> 00:13:59,895 "We've got this tool and we would like you to help us see how it's working." 228 00:13:59,895 --> 00:14:03,235 They gave me early access to some of 229 00:14:03,235 --> 00:14:07,435 the content that they were remediating and I looked at it. 230 00:14:07,435 --> 00:14:10,575 They first came to me and I was very skeptical and they said, 231 00:14:10,575 --> 00:14:14,035 "We remediate documents to make them much more accessible." 232 00:14:14,035 --> 00:14:15,535 I'm like, "yes. 233 00:14:15,535 --> 00:14:19,020 Everybody says they do that, nobody does it." 234 00:14:19,020 --> 00:14:23,665 Then I actually looked at the full product and understood how they were working. 235 00:14:23,665 --> 00:14:27,540 First of all, they were doing a very reasonable job of remediating the content. 236 00:14:27,540 --> 00:14:34,370 But the really exciting thing for me was looking at the whole product as a package. 237 00:14:34,370 --> 00:14:38,205 They were doing one thing that nobody had thought about doing before, 238 00:14:38,205 --> 00:14:42,960 which was going in and catching faculty early on in their process. 239 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:44,095 Maybe not at the beginning, 240 00:14:44,095 --> 00:14:48,075 but early enough that as they were uploading content into their courses, 241 00:14:48,075 --> 00:14:50,665 catching those faculty and saying,"Hey, 242 00:14:50,665 --> 00:14:52,920 let's take a look at this. This is accessible. 243 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:54,735 This is inaccessible." 244 00:14:54,735 --> 00:15:01,510 So I worked with them very closely from the very beginning to say, 245 00:15:01,510 --> 00:15:03,180 this is the things we need to emphasize, 246 00:15:03,180 --> 00:15:05,275 these are the things we need to look at 247 00:15:05,275 --> 00:15:10,560 and I've always monitored it and respected 248 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:13,229 the product because it's given me as a professional 249 00:15:13,229 --> 00:15:16,045 in academia a tool I've never had before. 250 00:15:16,045 --> 00:15:20,235 I've never had access to go up to faculty and say, 251 00:15:20,235 --> 00:15:23,325 "Let's look at your content and see if your content is accessible." 252 00:15:23,325 --> 00:15:25,785 First of all, at a university like Berkeley, 253 00:15:25,785 --> 00:15:27,900 the scale is just too large. 254 00:15:27,900 --> 00:15:30,660 Maybe if there was 100 faculty at this university, 255 00:15:30,660 --> 00:15:31,825 I could do that. 256 00:15:31,825 --> 00:15:33,085 I can't do that at Berkeley. 257 00:15:33,085 --> 00:15:36,950 We have a lot more than 100 faculty members, 258 00:15:36,950 --> 00:15:39,450 and most of them aren't willing to talk to a staff member 259 00:15:39,450 --> 00:15:42,235 because they've got busy lives and all the rest of that. 260 00:15:42,235 --> 00:15:45,715 So ally gets the faculty right where they 261 00:15:45,715 --> 00:15:49,345 are and gives them the information in small digestible bites, 262 00:15:49,345 --> 00:15:51,535 which is what's really really important. 263 00:15:51,535 --> 00:15:56,069 Right now, they're getting messaging about big concepts, 264 00:15:56,069 --> 00:15:58,490 the big idea of accessibility. 265 00:15:58,490 --> 00:16:01,140 How do we even begin to talk about that? 266 00:16:01,140 --> 00:16:02,750 Do we talk about learning disability? 267 00:16:02,750 --> 00:16:05,910 Do we talk about physical disability? 268 00:16:05,910 --> 00:16:09,145 Do we talk about access to cognitive barrier? 269 00:16:09,145 --> 00:16:13,630 No. We have to talk about small minuscule little things. 270 00:16:13,630 --> 00:16:15,675 Do your images have labels? 271 00:16:15,675 --> 00:16:20,000 Get them to work on things and give them bite sized digestible information, 272 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:25,140 and that's what Ally I saw as the value right early on at the beginning. 273 00:16:25,140 --> 00:16:26,310 It's like, "Oh my God, 274 00:16:26,310 --> 00:16:28,125 you mean I can actually get 275 00:16:28,125 --> 00:16:32,790 a faculty member to know that a PDF they created is a scanned image?" 276 00:16:32,790 --> 00:16:35,635 forget about remediating that PDF for them, 277 00:16:35,635 --> 00:16:37,520 which ally did do. 278 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:40,255 But just letting them know that 279 00:16:40,255 --> 00:16:43,225 inherently what you're uploading blocks 280 00:16:43,225 --> 00:16:47,100 a percentage of the population from actually accessing the content. 281 00:16:47,100 --> 00:16:50,735 How have you seen the product evolve over the years? 282 00:16:50,735 --> 00:16:53,150 It has evolved through leaps and bounds. 283 00:16:53,150 --> 00:16:56,435 First of all, the algorithms they're using are getting better and better. 284 00:16:56,435 --> 00:16:58,190 We're looking at different products, 285 00:16:58,190 --> 00:17:00,230 we're looking at different campuses, 286 00:17:00,230 --> 00:17:02,900 different universities around the world now 287 00:17:02,900 --> 00:17:05,300 and seeing similarities in education. 288 00:17:05,300 --> 00:17:09,380 It's giving us great insight into where academia is. 289 00:17:09,380 --> 00:17:15,630 It's telling us what people are doing right and people are doing wrong for accessibility. 290 00:17:16,090 --> 00:17:22,175 The product is evolving by working more with universities and helping us, 291 00:17:22,175 --> 00:17:25,400 first of all see where our problems are, 292 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:33,320 going through and seeing that campus I work on has X number of files that are PDFs. 293 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:35,570 So maybe we need to work on PDFs. 294 00:17:35,570 --> 00:17:42,080 It's giving us ways to approach the problem that we've never had access to before. 295 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:48,680 Tell me a little bit about the data review today and the first three months of roll-out. 296 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:53,120 It was really exciting to go through our data review and see 297 00:17:53,120 --> 00:17:57,080 that faculty were engaging with content and changing content. 298 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:00,530 That was really quite rewarding for me. 299 00:18:00,530 --> 00:18:03,590 I mean, it was nice to see that we had a lot of 300 00:18:03,590 --> 00:18:08,135 content but that the content wasn't also all bad. 301 00:18:08,135 --> 00:18:12,350 There was some content that was in there that actually had some promise, 302 00:18:12,350 --> 00:18:16,940 but it also gave us some really good guidance as to where we need to go next. 303 00:18:16,940 --> 00:18:19,565 We still have a lot of images being uploaded, 304 00:18:19,565 --> 00:18:21,530 not as many as we would have thought. 305 00:18:21,530 --> 00:18:23,420 So that was actually interesting to see 306 00:18:23,420 --> 00:18:26,915 that faculty are moving away from uploading images. 307 00:18:26,915 --> 00:18:30,455 But we still have people putting in scanned PDFs 308 00:18:30,455 --> 00:18:33,740 and getting those fixed it's going to be critical and key. 309 00:18:33,740 --> 00:18:39,500 I mean it was great though because we now have a snapshot of where we are, 310 00:18:39,500 --> 00:18:42,515 what we're doing and what kind of content we're creating. 311 00:18:42,515 --> 00:18:47,330 We know that PDFs are the number one thing that we're doing on our campus, 312 00:18:47,330 --> 00:18:50,570 so we have to find a better way of creating those PDFs. 313 00:18:50,570 --> 00:18:54,620 What do you see as maybe the next steps in the process? 314 00:18:54,620 --> 00:18:57,920 So the next steps in the process is of course to continue using Ally. 315 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:02,150 That's going to be really important to keep engaging and to start 316 00:19:02,150 --> 00:19:06,500 communicating ways and means for people to do the things they're doing more effectively. 317 00:19:06,500 --> 00:19:11,930 So, we need to start providing our faculty with the tools and easy access 318 00:19:11,930 --> 00:19:17,690 to the tools and provide them with easy to understand guidance on how to use the tools. 319 00:19:17,690 --> 00:19:20,195 So we need to encourage people. 320 00:19:20,195 --> 00:19:23,540 "Hey, use Microsoft Word and maybe upgrade your copy of 321 00:19:23,540 --> 00:19:27,635 Microsoft Word so that you're using the most advanced version of it". 322 00:19:27,635 --> 00:19:31,235 These are the quick steps on how to check your product. 323 00:19:31,235 --> 00:19:37,325 Literally, get the messaging through to them and I think starting to provide 324 00:19:37,325 --> 00:19:43,715 places and ways for them to understand how to do what they're doing better. 325 00:19:43,715 --> 00:19:47,510 That it focus specifically on what the reports are telling us. 326 00:19:47,510 --> 00:19:51,410 So, the number one problem is scanned PDFs. 327 00:19:51,410 --> 00:19:55,790 So what kind of things can we do to stop those scanned PDFs. 328 00:19:55,790 --> 00:20:00,740 Do we have to go around and find out where those photocopiers are that 329 00:20:00,740 --> 00:20:05,735 are only scanning images and providing images and maybe install OCR functions on them. 330 00:20:05,735 --> 00:20:10,025 That's maybe one solution but there's got to be others as well. 331 00:20:10,025 --> 00:20:14,330 We've got to start coming up with fast easy fixes. 332 00:20:14,330 --> 00:20:20,525 What's most exciting do you see in the horizon for accessibility technologies? 333 00:20:20,525 --> 00:20:25,070 The fact that STEM is becoming more accessible is really important to me. 334 00:20:25,070 --> 00:20:26,945 The fact that we can now do math, 335 00:20:26,945 --> 00:20:29,090 or chemistry, or biology 336 00:20:29,090 --> 00:20:33,155 or physics online and that it's actually becoming more accessible, 337 00:20:33,155 --> 00:20:35,990 I think it's going to make it not only accessible to people with 338 00:20:35,990 --> 00:20:39,770 disabilities but it's going to make it accessible to third world countries. 339 00:20:39,770 --> 00:20:40,970 People can learn more, 340 00:20:40,970 --> 00:20:45,155 people can engage with content and understand it. 341 00:20:45,155 --> 00:20:49,475 Education can benefit from technology if it's done right. 342 00:20:49,475 --> 00:20:53,345 One thing we didn't talk about yet is like the alternative formats. 343 00:20:53,345 --> 00:20:57,379 So just from a person with a visual impairment, 344 00:20:57,379 --> 00:21:01,010 what's the value of being able to get an alternative format? 345 00:21:01,010 --> 00:21:04,250 I'm going to throw that back at you and say that the value for 346 00:21:04,250 --> 00:21:07,730 everyone is that you get to learn in the way you want to learn. 347 00:21:07,730 --> 00:21:11,420 Maybe you're a commuter and you want to listen to an MP3 file 348 00:21:11,420 --> 00:21:16,865 because you're driving and you can't take your eyes off the road to read the book. 349 00:21:16,865 --> 00:21:22,160 Maybe you're a person who is a tactile learner and you want to be able to engage with 350 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:24,860 an HTML file and move your way through 351 00:21:24,860 --> 00:21:28,280 that HTML file and see the links and connections within it. 352 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:34,910 Maybe you are a person who needs to see and hear to understand. 353 00:21:34,910 --> 00:21:37,520 So you're going to listen to it then you're going to read it. 354 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:39,920 If you're a blind and visually impaired person and 355 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:41,810 somebody does give you that scanned image, 356 00:21:41,810 --> 00:21:45,380 being able to download it as an HTML file or a PDF, 357 00:21:45,380 --> 00:21:48,650 gives you the benefit that you currently have to wait 358 00:21:48,650 --> 00:21:53,090 up to seven weeks to get that converted by your disabled students program. 359 00:21:53,090 --> 00:21:59,620 You can download that alternative format and have a file within instances, 360 00:21:59,620 --> 00:22:03,220 seconds that you didn't have access to before. 361 00:22:03,220 --> 00:22:04,750 You had to go to somebody else and say, 362 00:22:04,750 --> 00:22:06,130 "Can you remediate this". 363 00:22:06,130 --> 00:22:08,875 Now you have access to it yourself. 364 00:22:08,875 --> 00:22:14,590 Because people can engage with those formats and pick whichever format they want, 365 00:22:14,590 --> 00:22:17,350 that means that they can absorb it whatever way they want, 366 00:22:17,350 --> 00:22:19,785 when they want, how they want, where they want. 367 00:22:19,785 --> 00:22:22,040 How has it been for 368 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:28,160 the disability services office in terms of providing equitable access at scale? 369 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:29,570 How challenging is that? 370 00:22:29,570 --> 00:22:32,210 It's incredibly challenging. 371 00:22:32,210 --> 00:22:35,030 We have well over, 372 00:22:35,030 --> 00:22:38,990 I think it's close to 2,000 students right now with disabilities, 373 00:22:38,990 --> 00:22:45,920 many of which require alternative formats and we have to hire a lot of staff to do that. 374 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:49,130 I think there is currently 68 staff right now, 375 00:22:49,130 --> 00:22:51,605 doing alternative media conversion. 376 00:22:51,605 --> 00:22:53,300 That's a lot of people. 377 00:22:53,300 --> 00:22:56,525 That's huge and we're just serving, 378 00:22:56,525 --> 00:23:00,395 I think the number I heard was 125 students specifically with that. 379 00:23:00,395 --> 00:23:03,320 It's taking up to seven weeks to get them their content. 380 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,980 Some students are getting material on what we call it just in time basis, 381 00:23:06,980 --> 00:23:11,390 so you're covering topic X next week in the course, 382 00:23:11,390 --> 00:23:14,075 you're getting the material this week. 383 00:23:14,075 --> 00:23:16,340 You're not getting it before the semester. 384 00:23:16,340 --> 00:23:18,590 A lot of students like to go through their textbook ahead of 385 00:23:18,590 --> 00:23:21,605 time and get the ideas and concepts. 386 00:23:21,605 --> 00:23:25,235 Students will sometimes read the book before the semester even starts. 387 00:23:25,235 --> 00:23:28,460 Yes, very few of them but there are students who will do that. 388 00:23:28,460 --> 00:23:30,470 If you're disabled students and you're in 389 00:23:30,470 --> 00:23:35,735 a very complex area like chemistry or science of some sort, 390 00:23:35,735 --> 00:23:40,520 we may not be able to get that material to you in an accessible format ahead of time. 391 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,100 Any closing thoughts? 392 00:23:43,100 --> 00:23:44,510 I think. 393 00:23:44,510 --> 00:23:47,750 There are school's out there just getting started with Ally. 394 00:23:47,750 --> 00:23:49,550 The closing thought is this, 395 00:23:49,550 --> 00:23:51,530 to see where you're at. 396 00:23:51,530 --> 00:23:54,215 Thinking about the Ally tool, 397 00:23:54,215 --> 00:23:59,930 use this tool as a way to engage and gather information about where you need to train, 398 00:23:59,930 --> 00:24:02,645 where you need to reach out to people, 399 00:24:02,645 --> 00:24:06,785 and figure out what the support mechanisms you can afford to give people are. 400 00:24:06,785 --> 00:24:12,725 Educational institutions are desperately in need of funding to do things. 401 00:24:12,725 --> 00:24:17,450 Using something like Ally to target what's most important in your institution, 402 00:24:17,450 --> 00:24:20,165 maybe you don't have as many PDF as we do. 403 00:24:20,165 --> 00:24:23,375 Maybe you have images, that's your a problem. 404 00:24:23,375 --> 00:24:27,770 Come up with really effective ways of communicating about how to 405 00:24:27,770 --> 00:24:33,117 make those things more accessible to your campus by using the Ally tool. 406 00:24:33,117 --> 00:24:41,750 Make sure that your faculty find the tool as a help 407 00:24:41,750 --> 00:24:50,380 not as a threat or a hindrance to their getting you from point A to point B, 408 00:24:50,380 --> 00:24:53,630 point out that this tool is there to make them better people. 409 00:24:53,630 --> 00:24:57,515 That's the number one thing to focus on. 410 00:24:57,515 --> 00:25:00,055 If you say to them, 411 00:25:00,125 --> 00:25:03,635 "You may actually face penalties if you're not actually 412 00:25:03,635 --> 00:25:06,195 correcting your files nobody's going to want to use the tool." 413 00:25:06,195 --> 00:25:08,605 But hey,"We're providing you this 414 00:25:08,605 --> 00:25:11,645 so you can reach out to more students and be more effective, 415 00:25:11,645 --> 00:25:14,605 engage with it, let us know where it's failing you, 416 00:25:14,605 --> 00:25:16,640 let us know where it's assisting you." 417 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:23,255 You will form a partnership between your faculty and your audience and be 418 00:25:23,255 --> 00:25:25,905 able to engage more effectively and be able 419 00:25:25,905 --> 00:25:30,135 to get to a point where accessibility is part of the culture. 420 00:25:30,135 --> 00:25:31,405 Which is where you want to be, 421 00:25:31,405 --> 00:25:33,385 you don't want accessibility to be a mandate, 422 00:25:33,385 --> 00:25:37,025 you don't want accessibility to be something that's tacked on at the end, 423 00:25:37,025 --> 00:25:39,175 you want people to think about accessibility as 424 00:25:39,175 --> 00:25:42,015 a cultural important thing in 425 00:25:42,015 --> 00:25:47,005 the organization and have everyone be a part of that community. 426 00:25:47,005 --> 00:25:49,665 Really inspiring to hear from Lucy. 427 00:25:49,665 --> 00:25:52,855 I think the thing that stands out to me is just how 428 00:25:52,855 --> 00:25:56,155 important it is to reach faculty in their workflow. 429 00:25:56,155 --> 00:26:00,765 For so many years Lucy's been trying to connect with faculty about the importance of 430 00:26:00,765 --> 00:26:02,695 accessibility and how to author 431 00:26:02,695 --> 00:26:06,390 accessible content and now with a tool like Blackboard Ally, 432 00:26:06,390 --> 00:26:10,175 she's able to spark that conversation inside the LMS, 433 00:26:10,175 --> 00:26:15,125 that point of contact still important for moving the conversation forward and giving 434 00:26:15,125 --> 00:26:20,790 the faculty the tools and skills they need to create more equitable learning experiences. 435 00:26:20,790 --> 00:26:24,620 Now we'll have the chance to hear from the accessibility team lead, 436 00:26:24,620 --> 00:26:27,315 Dr. Joseph Feria-Galicia, who has been 437 00:26:27,315 --> 00:26:30,400 leading the Blackboard Ally roll out at UC Berkeley. 438 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,795 Joseph has a background in instructional design and was working with 439 00:26:33,795 --> 00:26:37,314 faculty in designing accessible online courses, 440 00:26:37,314 --> 00:26:41,535 working with Lucy Greco to build in those accessibility best practices. 441 00:26:41,535 --> 00:26:43,545 Now as the Ally team lead, 442 00:26:43,545 --> 00:26:46,015 he's actually working with the existing courses, 443 00:26:46,015 --> 00:26:50,865 helping put in the strategies and the communications and the trainings in place to help 444 00:26:50,865 --> 00:26:53,485 those faculty take their existing content and 445 00:26:53,485 --> 00:26:56,540 start to make it accessible using Blackboard Ally. 446 00:26:56,540 --> 00:26:59,485 I'm Joseph Feria-Galicia, I'm the accessibility team lead with 447 00:26:59,485 --> 00:27:03,375 UC Berkeley and I'm also the LA service lead on campus. 448 00:27:03,375 --> 00:27:05,670 Just tell me a little bit about your background 449 00:27:05,670 --> 00:27:09,175 in working with accessibility issues with disability? 450 00:27:09,175 --> 00:27:11,645 Sure, I've been here on campus for five years 451 00:27:11,645 --> 00:27:14,830 and started off with the Berkeley resource center for online education, 452 00:27:14,830 --> 00:27:19,535 became an accessibility team lead right after and making sure that 453 00:27:19,535 --> 00:27:25,285 our online content is accessible both the course content and the download files, 454 00:27:25,285 --> 00:27:26,925 providing a number of workshops to 455 00:27:26,925 --> 00:27:30,600 instructional designers and helping with policy as well. 456 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:32,960 Your background is in instructional design? 457 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:37,160 My background is educational policies studies and educational technology. 458 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,490 But yes, I was an instructional designer for a number of years as well. 459 00:27:40,490 --> 00:27:44,490 The instructional design work was one of the reasons why I was hired originally. 460 00:27:44,490 --> 00:27:47,535 The team was amazing and I learned a great deal, 461 00:27:47,535 --> 00:27:52,675 they were doing a lot of work in terms of providing content in smaller modules, 462 00:27:52,675 --> 00:27:55,225 making sure there's alternative forms of assessment 463 00:27:55,225 --> 00:27:58,515 and making sure the online courses are navigable. 464 00:27:58,515 --> 00:28:01,875 So they had a lot of good universal design concepts 465 00:28:01,875 --> 00:28:05,915 implemented but in terms of the course content like using headings, 466 00:28:05,915 --> 00:28:09,085 things like that, in the download files I was able to help 467 00:28:09,085 --> 00:28:13,340 out with that back in 2012 I believe. 468 00:28:13,340 --> 00:28:16,985 Nice. So you kind of got involved in with Ally, 469 00:28:16,985 --> 00:28:18,955 becoming the service lead with Ally. 470 00:28:18,955 --> 00:28:22,695 So maybe just kind of thinking back before Ally for 471 00:28:22,695 --> 00:28:26,515 supporting students with diverse needs and not just those disclose, 472 00:28:26,515 --> 00:28:31,040 what kind of practices and strategies have been put in place to support those students? 473 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,300 Yes, so in terms of online content, 474 00:28:34,300 --> 00:28:38,465 UC Berkeley has been slow to adopt online courses but 475 00:28:38,465 --> 00:28:43,095 the UC Extension was the model on campus and again, 476 00:28:43,095 --> 00:28:48,150 like I mentioned earlier the course content that the Berkeley resource center 477 00:28:48,150 --> 00:28:53,795 for online education was creating involved breaking the content down into smaller chunks, 478 00:28:53,795 --> 00:28:56,975 using the modules, using good navigation, 479 00:28:56,975 --> 00:28:59,265 a consistent navigation, consistent layout. 480 00:28:59,265 --> 00:29:03,085 For the most part color contrast was really good, yes. 481 00:29:03,085 --> 00:29:09,360 Just trying to reach diverse learners that way but the content itself in terms of 482 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:17,125 headings and the download files weren't necessarily looked upon originally back in 2012. 483 00:29:17,125 --> 00:29:21,085 But, you know, as soon as we brought it up it was embraced and then 484 00:29:21,085 --> 00:29:24,855 we created a number of course templates, Word templates, 485 00:29:24,855 --> 00:29:28,255 PowerPoint templates and just really embraced 486 00:29:28,255 --> 00:29:32,845 the training model right away within the Berkeley resource center for online education. 487 00:29:32,845 --> 00:29:38,485 That was recently broken up so that we could bring the expertise on campus and 488 00:29:38,485 --> 00:29:44,655 the new organization that is leading the push is Digital Learning Services or DLS. 489 00:29:44,655 --> 00:29:50,145 They also implement a digital learning initiative campus-wide and we're 490 00:29:50,145 --> 00:29:53,395 accepting grant opportunities for 491 00:29:53,395 --> 00:29:58,015 faculty to learn how to create their course content using inclusive design. 492 00:29:58,015 --> 00:30:03,770 That's happening this spring and into the summer and next fall. 493 00:30:03,770 --> 00:30:06,130 That's cool. What does that consist of? 494 00:30:06,130 --> 00:30:09,835 Like the grant, what kind of strategies are they incorporating using inclusive design? 495 00:30:09,835 --> 00:30:15,225 Yes. Well, just the use of an accessible canvas template is really key. 496 00:30:15,225 --> 00:30:21,115 We've tested the template itself using Lucy Greco's web access team and 497 00:30:21,115 --> 00:30:27,195 so we created proper navigation with the skip tools for a screen reader users, 498 00:30:27,195 --> 00:30:30,300 again breaking things down into smaller modules, 499 00:30:30,300 --> 00:30:36,940 chunking the videos into smaller eight-minute videos instead of 13 or 20-minute videos, 500 00:30:36,940 --> 00:30:38,800 making sure everything's captioned, 501 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,315 also just trying to focus on accessible content, 502 00:30:42,315 --> 00:30:44,125 the download files as well. 503 00:30:44,125 --> 00:30:48,265 So we do a lot of workshops as well around Microsoft Word, 504 00:30:48,265 --> 00:30:52,115 PowerPoint and Adobe Acrobat to get folks up to speed. 505 00:30:52,115 --> 00:30:54,005 Nice. Have you started those yet? 506 00:30:54,005 --> 00:30:55,750 They're starting this spring. 507 00:30:55,750 --> 00:30:56,955 This spring they are starting those? 508 00:30:56,955 --> 00:30:57,410 Yes. 509 00:30:57,410 --> 00:31:00,675 Faculty board have already been selected for that? 510 00:31:00,675 --> 00:31:04,410 Yes, there's been a few that have been offered and yes, they're getting started. 511 00:31:04,410 --> 00:31:06,595 The other initiative is helped by 512 00:31:06,595 --> 00:31:11,225 the Digital Learning Service team is Adobe Fellows Program and 513 00:31:11,225 --> 00:31:18,040 that is a program that takes advantage of the UC Berkeley's license for Adobe products. 514 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:24,205 So we have well faculty from American cultures that are embracing 515 00:31:24,205 --> 00:31:27,765 students using things like Adobe Spark or 516 00:31:27,765 --> 00:31:32,165 Premier or Rush or Photoshop into their curriculum. 517 00:31:32,165 --> 00:31:37,465 So instead of traditional multiple-choice tests or essays, 518 00:31:37,465 --> 00:31:41,495 they are able to produce podcasts or videos 519 00:31:41,495 --> 00:31:46,595 or infographics to share their learning within the classroom. 520 00:31:46,595 --> 00:31:50,415 For those we're encouraging students to produce content 521 00:31:50,415 --> 00:31:54,495 that has the proper use of captioning, 522 00:31:54,495 --> 00:31:57,225 described the video, color contrast, 523 00:31:57,225 --> 00:32:00,780 things of that sort so that they're producing accessible content as well. 524 00:32:00,780 --> 00:32:02,645 That's happening right now. 525 00:32:02,645 --> 00:32:05,790 Yes, so you guys are doing audio description on the videos? 526 00:32:05,790 --> 00:32:09,155 We're encouraging to describe it before the need for AV at 527 00:32:09,155 --> 00:32:13,730 the end so that they're describing it as the recording is taking place. 528 00:32:13,730 --> 00:32:17,345 Got you. So then you are not use any special software to do that? 529 00:32:17,345 --> 00:32:21,790 We have tested out 3Play audio description and it's actually really good. 530 00:32:21,790 --> 00:32:22,380 Yes. 531 00:32:22,380 --> 00:32:25,375 When you pause that's extended audio description so 532 00:32:25,375 --> 00:32:28,515 then instead of a five-minute video that's originally short 533 00:32:28,515 --> 00:32:31,095 you could turn it into a seven or eight-minute video because of 534 00:32:31,095 --> 00:32:35,035 the added description but their service is really good. 535 00:32:35,035 --> 00:32:38,265 How did you learn all this accessibility stuff signed in your background? 536 00:32:38,265 --> 00:32:46,615 Yes, when my brother went blind back in 96 at the age of 39 and I helped install JAWS on 537 00:32:46,615 --> 00:32:50,765 his computer and just saw how his access 538 00:32:50,765 --> 00:32:55,100 to the online community gave him hope for life in a lot of ways, 539 00:32:55,100 --> 00:32:57,155 it lifted his morale. 540 00:32:57,155 --> 00:33:01,855 I've been involved in different social justice endeavors and didn't make 541 00:33:01,855 --> 00:33:04,405 the connection until much later that 542 00:33:04,405 --> 00:33:07,565 this type of access to historically marginalized communities, 543 00:33:07,565 --> 00:33:10,860 it embraces people with disabilities as well. 544 00:33:10,860 --> 00:33:13,305 So my brother's experience is one and 545 00:33:13,305 --> 00:33:16,915 then I was at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign and they were 546 00:33:16,915 --> 00:33:20,625 using a native American mascot 547 00:33:20,625 --> 00:33:25,035 that was impacting a student retention for native people, people of color. 548 00:33:25,035 --> 00:33:28,625 Someone at the University let us know that the website that we 549 00:33:28,625 --> 00:33:32,315 were using and our PDF files weren't accessible. 550 00:33:32,315 --> 00:33:34,765 Again, making that connection to social justice 551 00:33:34,765 --> 00:33:39,265 and I just quickly learned how to code websites with 552 00:33:39,265 --> 00:33:48,055 CSS and headings and then slowly producing PDFs in an accessible way. Yes. 553 00:33:48,055 --> 00:33:50,730 Was it easier to learn the websites and PDFs? 554 00:33:50,730 --> 00:33:55,135 Well, at the time it was just more pertinent for the website but yes, 555 00:33:55,135 --> 00:34:01,430 PDFs are a big quagmire and nobody likes doing them. 556 00:34:01,430 --> 00:34:03,545 I wish there was a different way, hopefully, 557 00:34:03,545 --> 00:34:07,565 things like EPUB will help replace those or just straight HTML. 558 00:34:07,565 --> 00:34:11,267 But yes, PDFs are everyone's burden. 559 00:34:11,267 --> 00:34:14,330 Let's switch a little bit to Ally first. 560 00:34:14,330 --> 00:34:17,135 When did you first get introduced Ally? 561 00:34:17,135 --> 00:34:21,064 So while we were at the Berkeley Resource Center for Online Education, 562 00:34:21,064 --> 00:34:24,920 Nicholas actually, he came to a workshop that we had on tables, 563 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,460 accessible tables and that's when we first met him and then 564 00:34:28,460 --> 00:34:32,405 he needed pilot participants back. 565 00:34:32,405 --> 00:34:37,100 This was probably one of the first ones I piloted at the UC Extension. 566 00:34:37,100 --> 00:34:39,380 I didn't really pay attention to it much 567 00:34:39,380 --> 00:34:42,620 because all of our indicators were green at the time 568 00:34:42,620 --> 00:34:45,245 because we were pretty remediating all our content. 569 00:34:45,245 --> 00:34:48,935 It wasn't until some of the instructional designers might 570 00:34:48,935 --> 00:34:53,075 add a PDF file or a Word file that wasn't remediated, 571 00:34:53,075 --> 00:34:55,025 and then we would see the indicators. 572 00:34:55,025 --> 00:34:58,325 It was just a really good way of triangulating our work. 573 00:34:58,325 --> 00:35:03,560 I think we actually presented with Nicholas at 574 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:05,810 season on Ally and shared with 575 00:35:05,810 --> 00:35:09,140 the community our best practices and producing online content. 576 00:35:09,140 --> 00:35:12,935 So that was our initial endeavor with Ally 577 00:35:12,935 --> 00:35:14,855 and then now that we're on campus, 578 00:35:14,855 --> 00:35:15,890 it's a different model. 579 00:35:15,890 --> 00:35:18,110 We don't have a lot of instructional designers, 580 00:35:18,110 --> 00:35:19,850 creating content for the rest of the campus, 581 00:35:19,850 --> 00:35:22,940 so we're able to see the beauty of Ally in terms of 582 00:35:22,940 --> 00:35:26,705 informing the community of the course content in the download files. 583 00:35:26,705 --> 00:35:29,660 So tell me a little bit about the process just now 584 00:35:29,660 --> 00:35:33,395 in preparing to roll out Ally to the campus. 585 00:35:33,395 --> 00:35:34,385 Sure. 586 00:35:34,385 --> 00:35:36,530 Last semester, thing about last semester, 587 00:35:36,530 --> 00:35:38,210 what the process was. 588 00:35:38,210 --> 00:35:43,805 Yes. So we reached out to our Center for Teaching and Learning to recruit 15, 589 00:35:43,805 --> 00:35:48,680 actually it was 11 faculty that had 15 courses. 590 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:54,500 This took place in the fall of 2018 and we had an array of different users. 591 00:35:54,500 --> 00:35:56,750 Some of them were very enthusiastic about Ally, 592 00:35:56,750 --> 00:35:59,480 some of them just were participating as 593 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,795 a favor didn't really pay attention to the indicators 594 00:36:02,795 --> 00:36:04,460 and then others were willing 595 00:36:04,460 --> 00:36:08,900 to select the indicators and try to make some fixes themselves. 596 00:36:08,900 --> 00:36:10,835 But for the most part, 597 00:36:10,835 --> 00:36:13,430 we found it a positive experience 598 00:36:13,430 --> 00:36:18,725 because it worked and there weren't very many service calls, 599 00:36:18,725 --> 00:36:20,165 there weren't any service calls, 600 00:36:20,165 --> 00:36:23,555 so we were able to launch it without much support. 601 00:36:23,555 --> 00:36:25,040 We had support in place 602 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,415 but our fears were that we would be overwhelmed with service calls. 603 00:36:28,415 --> 00:36:31,610 Because it seamlessly integrates with canvas, 604 00:36:31,610 --> 00:36:34,400 I think a lot of people just went along with it, 605 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,260 didn't notice it too much. 606 00:36:36,260 --> 00:36:39,695 I did go to a couple of classes and showed the students 607 00:36:39,695 --> 00:36:43,130 the alternative formats and they were very enthusiastic 608 00:36:43,130 --> 00:36:46,040 and that was another reason why we wanted to launch a little earlier because 609 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,265 of student enthusiasm for the alternative formats. 610 00:36:49,265 --> 00:36:52,760 So part of what we had to build was 611 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:57,530 our service page with resources, frequently asked questions, 612 00:36:57,530 --> 00:37:01,850 training our helpdesk on how to respond to urgent questions 613 00:37:01,850 --> 00:37:08,480 and our teaching and learning service team had a long history of launching new services 614 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:15,020 and so they had templates for launch and that's just really helpful to work 615 00:37:15,020 --> 00:37:18,380 with a group of experienced individuals that were 616 00:37:18,380 --> 00:37:22,055 very enthusiastic about the hopes of Ally and getting it implemented. 617 00:37:22,055 --> 00:37:26,765 So we launched on January 11th, 2019. 618 00:37:26,765 --> 00:37:30,530 We were a little worried about the amount of service calls that we would get 619 00:37:30,530 --> 00:37:36,290 but we've since launch and it's today's the 21st we've only received 620 00:37:36,290 --> 00:37:40,070 two service calls and both of them had to do 621 00:37:40,070 --> 00:37:44,330 with helping their course materials more accessible. 622 00:37:44,330 --> 00:37:48,425 We've also had some instructors come into office hours, 623 00:37:48,425 --> 00:37:50,870 they just want to know how to make their course more 624 00:37:50,870 --> 00:37:53,495 accessible because they don't want the read indicators. 625 00:37:53,495 --> 00:37:56,284 So it's been really positive overall, 626 00:37:56,284 --> 00:38:02,000 it's galvanized us to work across other units, other departments. 627 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:03,500 We're working with Lucy's team, 628 00:38:03,500 --> 00:38:04,790 the web access team, 629 00:38:04,790 --> 00:38:08,900 with disability students program, with the library, 630 00:38:08,900 --> 00:38:12,320 with alternative media and with equity and inclusion 631 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:16,850 now and it's the first time in my recollection that this has happened. 632 00:38:16,850 --> 00:38:20,690 So the momentum that Ally is providing on campus is I 633 00:38:20,690 --> 00:38:24,515 think leading toward a culture change around accessibility issues, 634 00:38:24,515 --> 00:38:27,575 which is something that's really needed and that's going to help 635 00:38:27,575 --> 00:38:31,295 deepen our understanding of what accessibility is on campus. 636 00:38:31,295 --> 00:38:37,550 Can you elaborate maybe just why you didn't see a faculty reaction, 637 00:38:37,550 --> 00:38:40,430 like there wasn't that many service calls and that 638 00:38:40,430 --> 00:38:42,980 there wasn't the push-back as it's obviously, 639 00:38:42,980 --> 00:38:44,030 it was a fear here, 640 00:38:44,030 --> 00:38:45,890 is if you're in a lot of places that they 641 00:38:45,890 --> 00:38:48,215 turn it on they're going to get a lot of push back. 642 00:38:48,215 --> 00:38:52,125 What in your mind was the reason that they didn't have that? 643 00:38:52,125 --> 00:38:54,335 Well, no matter what, 644 00:38:54,335 --> 00:38:58,250 if faculty gets a letter of accommodation, 645 00:38:58,250 --> 00:39:02,165 then they're going to get support from disability students program and alternative media, 646 00:39:02,165 --> 00:39:05,810 to produce that alternative content more excessively. 647 00:39:05,810 --> 00:39:11,365 There is no mandate for faculty to produce accessible content right now, 648 00:39:11,365 --> 00:39:17,065 they're not reprimanded, they're just provided with the indicators and that's it. 649 00:39:17,065 --> 00:39:19,530 So they could choose to ignore them 650 00:39:19,530 --> 00:39:22,955 and I think that's what a lot of them are doing. 651 00:39:22,955 --> 00:39:25,445 Based on the data yesterday, 652 00:39:25,445 --> 00:39:28,790 there are a number of faculty that are clicking through 653 00:39:28,790 --> 00:39:32,285 the red indicators and making content more accessible. 654 00:39:32,285 --> 00:39:35,165 But again, there's no mandate, there's no penalty, 655 00:39:35,165 --> 00:39:36,260 and then we have 656 00:39:36,260 --> 00:39:41,420 our disability students program to take care of our legal mandates overall. 657 00:39:41,420 --> 00:39:44,630 So it's a safe place right now. 658 00:39:44,630 --> 00:39:50,960 We do have support in terms of the disability students program. 659 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,990 I'm just assuming that's what's happening right now. 660 00:39:53,990 --> 00:39:56,720 yes. Now, it makes them makes a lot of sense. 661 00:39:56,720 --> 00:39:59,930 What about when you presented the alternative formats to students, 662 00:39:59,930 --> 00:40:01,520 how did they respond to it? 663 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,310 They applauded. They were like, 664 00:40:04,310 --> 00:40:05,990 "Wow, this is really helpful." 665 00:40:05,990 --> 00:40:09,860 They were very enthusiastic about the HTML or 666 00:40:09,860 --> 00:40:13,895 the mobile devices and in the audio as well. 667 00:40:13,895 --> 00:40:19,295 I would get ovations when at my workshops were done. 668 00:40:19,295 --> 00:40:20,540 Not because of my content, 669 00:40:20,540 --> 00:40:23,645 but because of the alternative formats. 670 00:40:23,645 --> 00:40:26,990 It's just really needed I think within the student life right now. 671 00:40:26,990 --> 00:40:29,810 Yes. Do you think it's like the nature of 672 00:40:29,810 --> 00:40:32,600 the campus where you've got a lot of students relying on 673 00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:36,020 mobile and English language learners or you just think as 674 00:40:36,020 --> 00:40:40,250 a general need in education to have that kind of access? 675 00:40:40,250 --> 00:40:43,489 Yes. We do have a lot of second language learners on campus, 676 00:40:43,489 --> 00:40:45,140 lot of international students. 677 00:40:45,140 --> 00:40:49,400 They were particular the ones that were asking questions and we're better testing 678 00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:55,850 the translation tool and I think that was another functionality that was well received. 679 00:40:55,850 --> 00:40:57,710 We're not really a commuter school, 680 00:40:57,710 --> 00:41:02,750 but student life is really busy and they're just so used to mobile devices. 681 00:41:02,750 --> 00:41:05,450 I think that anything that they could consume on 682 00:41:05,450 --> 00:41:07,490 their mobile devices is going to be 683 00:41:07,490 --> 00:41:10,040 helpful for them in terms of their academic performance. 684 00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:15,950 Yes. Had you be creating a ton of training resources and things like that? 685 00:41:15,950 --> 00:41:17,975 Yes. So that's another thing. 686 00:41:17,975 --> 00:41:21,995 Just because we're not receiving service requests or service calls, 687 00:41:21,995 --> 00:41:25,260 doesn't mean that the need isn't there. 688 00:41:25,390 --> 00:41:30,500 I do workshops around Adobe Acrobat and Microsoft Word, 689 00:41:30,500 --> 00:41:33,830 so we just created content around that so that it's 690 00:41:33,830 --> 00:41:37,505 more of a self-service model and it's been well received as well. 691 00:41:37,505 --> 00:41:39,110 Again, it's open for everyone. 692 00:41:39,110 --> 00:41:42,485 It's available for anyone outside of our campus as well to use. 693 00:41:42,485 --> 00:41:43,360 Thanks. 694 00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:45,240 Before we get to that what's next, 695 00:41:45,240 --> 00:41:48,160 what about working with the consulting team, 696 00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,210 Kristi Greer and that team. 697 00:41:50,210 --> 00:41:55,995 Was that helpful for you in getting the strategy and communications in place? 698 00:41:55,995 --> 00:41:59,350 Yes. So Kristi Greer is really amazing. 699 00:41:59,350 --> 00:42:01,470 John Scott as well been really helpful. 700 00:42:01,470 --> 00:42:06,195 I mean whenever we have questions we get responses within 24 hours. 701 00:42:06,195 --> 00:42:08,545 The fact that they're able to put us in contact 702 00:42:08,545 --> 00:42:11,470 with other institutions similar institutions, 703 00:42:11,470 --> 00:42:13,205 is really helpful as well. 704 00:42:13,205 --> 00:42:17,195 I think one of the most helpful was getting in contact with Chico State, 705 00:42:17,195 --> 00:42:23,830 Jeremy Elgin who shared his experience of when they turn on the Ally tool. 706 00:42:23,830 --> 00:42:24,985 He went to his office 707 00:42:24,985 --> 00:42:27,450 and just waited for the service calls and nothing really 708 00:42:27,450 --> 00:42:30,395 came and that was really helpful as well, 709 00:42:30,395 --> 00:42:32,005 it helped alleviate some of 710 00:42:32,005 --> 00:42:35,450 our apprehensions about turning on the tool in the first place. 711 00:42:35,450 --> 00:42:39,665 But overall, whenever we would have meetings and in 712 00:42:39,665 --> 00:42:44,940 our meetings with the Blackboard support team it involved our librarian, 713 00:42:44,940 --> 00:42:49,140 our alternative media specialists and our web access representative as well. 714 00:42:49,140 --> 00:42:52,880 So we were communicating across units 715 00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:56,390 and that communication was more rich because of that 716 00:42:56,390 --> 00:43:02,350 and it wouldn't have happened without Kristi's leadership and your leadership as well. 717 00:43:02,350 --> 00:43:06,065 So we've continued on those relationships and strengthen them. 718 00:43:06,065 --> 00:43:11,455 Just not feeling alone and anticipating possible pain points, 719 00:43:11,455 --> 00:43:16,085 and then just a reminders all of that has been really helpful has been invaluable. 720 00:43:16,085 --> 00:43:18,370 Nice. So what's next? 721 00:43:18,370 --> 00:43:20,695 You're rolled out to the whole campus. 722 00:43:20,695 --> 00:43:23,620 What are you thinking about for your next steps? 723 00:43:23,620 --> 00:43:25,770 Yes. So we're going to continue 724 00:43:25,770 --> 00:43:30,410 our workshops and building online content for self-service. 725 00:43:30,410 --> 00:43:32,645 We're reaching out to our graduate student, 726 00:43:32,645 --> 00:43:35,875 instructors as well to see if we get them on 727 00:43:35,875 --> 00:43:39,460 board with some of the content remediation efforts. 728 00:43:39,460 --> 00:43:41,250 We've looked at Penn State and 729 00:43:41,250 --> 00:43:45,755 Washington Universities lays on programs and where they trained. 730 00:43:45,755 --> 00:43:48,660 It's a trained the trainer model for around 731 00:43:48,660 --> 00:43:53,105 accessibility across our different units so that we could spread our expertise 732 00:43:53,105 --> 00:43:57,320 and continue to impact the culture that looks at 733 00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:02,690 accessibility from new ways is involved with pre remediation as much as possible. 734 00:44:02,690 --> 00:44:06,130 Is that the biggest challenge right now as you go into 735 00:44:06,130 --> 00:44:09,905 the data review yesterday if you're going to think about your content challenge? 736 00:44:09,905 --> 00:44:15,200 Yes. So I mean one of the issues is where a research one institution 737 00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:21,015 and it might not be fair to expect instructors to remediate themselves. 738 00:44:21,015 --> 00:44:27,219 So trying to figure out some alternative models that instructors could be supported 739 00:44:27,219 --> 00:44:30,505 and that's can definitely involve a support staff across 740 00:44:30,505 --> 00:44:35,005 campus looking at content creation right from the beginning. 741 00:44:35,005 --> 00:44:42,200 If folks are aware of what is needed in order to produce accessible documents, 742 00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:44,165 then they're more likely to do so 743 00:44:44,165 --> 00:44:48,005 and it's not that difficult it's actually very efficient once you learn how to 744 00:44:48,005 --> 00:44:54,000 use styles in word or learn how to tag PDF files. 745 00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:56,785 It's not that difficult if you're working from the source files. 746 00:44:56,785 --> 00:44:59,280 Nice Jo. I think that's it man. 747 00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:01,015 Anything else you want to touch on? 748 00:45:01,015 --> 00:45:04,720 Oh just your world tour is really 749 00:45:04,720 --> 00:45:09,460 intrigued a lot of us and we're really excited that you've been presenting today. 750 00:45:09,460 --> 00:45:15,175 We have over 33 people that are registered for the event. 751 00:45:15,175 --> 00:45:20,105 It's helped us continue in our accessibility endeavors 752 00:45:20,105 --> 00:45:25,160 and your support has been really helpful for us reach new staff, 753 00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:27,570 new faculty and I really appreciate it. 754 00:45:27,570 --> 00:45:32,090 Has it been fun for you like you did like some presentations and stuff on Ally, 755 00:45:32,090 --> 00:45:36,425 is it fun to represent a product like this given your passions for this subject? 756 00:45:36,425 --> 00:45:39,875 Well, Ally has gotten so much better since we first 757 00:45:39,875 --> 00:45:43,910 previewed it when I was part of the Berkeley Resource Center for Online Education. 758 00:45:43,910 --> 00:45:47,255 So part of that is my belief in the product itself. 759 00:45:47,255 --> 00:45:49,265 It's very strong. 760 00:45:49,265 --> 00:45:53,180 There's a lot of depth to it and the road map just seems really promising. 761 00:45:53,180 --> 00:45:56,065 So yes, I'm really happy to associate myself with 762 00:45:56,065 --> 00:46:00,655 the product itself and the influence that it's having on campus. 763 00:46:00,655 --> 00:46:02,585 But yes it has been fun. 764 00:46:02,585 --> 00:46:07,135 That concludes another episode of the Blackboard Ally Podcast Series. 765 00:46:07,135 --> 00:46:10,220 It's really great to hear from Jo and Lucy about how they've been 766 00:46:10,220 --> 00:46:13,750 implementing Blackboard Ally at the UC Berkeley campus. 767 00:46:13,750 --> 00:46:17,385 I think it's another example where we see that faculty, 768 00:46:17,385 --> 00:46:20,030 they really do want to do the right thing by their students. 769 00:46:20,030 --> 00:46:24,305 They want to provide those equitable learning experiences for all their students 770 00:46:24,305 --> 00:46:27,880 and it's just a matter of working with them to find the time, 771 00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:30,970 find the strategies and the best practices to help 772 00:46:30,970 --> 00:46:34,930 them make accessibility part of their course design experiences. 773 00:46:34,930 --> 00:46:37,450 Be sure to keep an eye out for the next episode of 774 00:46:37,450 --> 00:46:39,920 the Blackboard Ally Podcast Series where we'll be 775 00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:43,030 traveling back across the country to Gaston College 776 00:46:43,030 --> 00:46:45,280 in North Carolina where we'll be talking with 777 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:49,350 Kim Geller Sengor and Karen Duncan about how they are using 778 00:46:49,350 --> 00:46:52,050 data rich insights from Blackboard Ally to 779 00:46:52,050 --> 00:46:56,075 systematically improve the accessibility of their courses. 780 00:46:56,075 --> 00:47:00,080 Until next time, see you on the road to IncluCity. 781 00:47:02,430 --> 00:47:08,535 Join the tour along with the rest of the Ally communities at tour.ally.ac. 782 00:47:08,535 --> 00:47:14,260 You can catch the latest updates on Instagram and Twitter at hashtag Ally tour 2019 783 00:47:14,260 --> 00:47:18,400 and listen to stories of inclusion from our community champions on the Ally tour 784 00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:23,875 2019 podcast series available on SoundCloud or in your favorite podcast app. 785 00:47:23,875 --> 00:47:29,260 We'll look forward to seeing you at the next stop on the road to IncluCity.