1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,125 We're on a worldwide search to see what inclusive education looks like. 2 00:00:04,125 --> 00:00:07,335 So Blackboard Ally is going on tour for 2019, 3 00:00:07,335 --> 00:00:10,080 visiting campuses around the globe to learn how they're 4 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:12,915 tackling their toughest accessibility challenges, 5 00:00:12,915 --> 00:00:16,425 and improving the learning experience for all their students. 6 00:00:16,425 --> 00:00:22,590 Welcome back to another episode The Blackboard Ally Tour podcasts series. 7 00:00:22,590 --> 00:00:28,170 After about a four hour drive down Highway 55 from the College of DuPage. 8 00:00:28,170 --> 00:00:32,895 We have arrived at Southern Illinois University Edwardsville. 9 00:00:32,895 --> 00:00:34,890 Just outside of St. Louis, 10 00:00:34,890 --> 00:00:37,080 and we're here with the team recording 11 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:43,365 our seventh and final episode of the 2019 Ally Tour. 12 00:00:43,365 --> 00:00:46,980 It's been amazing to connect with campuses all over 13 00:00:46,980 --> 00:00:51,750 the world and we're sad to be wrapping things up here for 2019, 14 00:00:51,750 --> 00:00:55,770 but we're very excited to be here on the campus at SIUE 15 00:00:55,770 --> 00:01:01,185 where diversity and inclusion key pillars to their institutional mission. 16 00:01:01,185 --> 00:01:06,180 We spent the morning watching the line at the Starbucks grow with students. 17 00:01:06,180 --> 00:01:07,680 We set up camp there, 18 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,770 demoing alternative formats on a big touch screen with the team. 19 00:01:11,770 --> 00:01:14,790 Is really cool to see students getting excited about 20 00:01:14,790 --> 00:01:18,075 having options to engage with their learning materials. 21 00:01:18,075 --> 00:01:23,820 Seeing the enthusiasm that the team demonstrated in connecting with those students. 22 00:01:23,820 --> 00:01:29,774 So now we're going to sit down and hear a little bit more about their journey with Ally, 23 00:01:29,774 --> 00:01:32,085 how they're thinking about accessibility, 24 00:01:32,085 --> 00:01:35,440 what's going on on the campus to support their diverse students. 25 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:37,560 So let's hear from the team. 26 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:42,645 So welcome, everybody, to another episode from the Ally Tour podcast series. 27 00:01:42,645 --> 00:01:45,930 I'm here at Southern Illinois University Edwardsville 28 00:01:45,930 --> 00:01:48,800 with the Information Technology Services Team. 29 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:51,075 I'm going to let the team introduce themselves. 30 00:01:51,075 --> 00:01:53,245 But we've had a great day so far. 31 00:01:53,245 --> 00:01:57,090 We were promoting alternative formats to students at the muck, 32 00:01:57,090 --> 00:01:59,580 giving out swag and discovering a lot of 33 00:01:59,580 --> 00:02:02,440 students were aware of the alternative formats icon. 34 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:05,160 We're clicking that and we're excited to see that they could 35 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:07,950 get their content in different formats so I'm 36 00:02:07,950 --> 00:02:10,710 going to let the team who's been supporting the roll-out here on 37 00:02:10,710 --> 00:02:13,905 campus introduced themselves starting on my left. 38 00:02:13,905 --> 00:02:17,715 Jodie Nehrt, Instructional Designer with the SIUE School of Nursing. 39 00:02:17,715 --> 00:02:20,250 Emily Keener, Instructional Designer. 40 00:02:20,250 --> 00:02:22,695 Jennifer Albat, Instructional Designer. 41 00:02:22,695 --> 00:02:24,810 Laura Million, Instructional Designer. 42 00:02:24,810 --> 00:02:27,900 Niki Glick, Application Support Trainer. 43 00:02:27,900 --> 00:02:30,150 Jonathon Coons, Instructional Designer,. 44 00:02:30,150 --> 00:02:32,910 Mathew Schmitz (Assoc Director of Online and Blended Ed). 45 00:02:32,910 --> 00:02:36,375 All right. So you've got a big team that's doing some great work. 46 00:02:36,375 --> 00:02:40,255 So first, just looking back, maybe historically, 47 00:02:40,255 --> 00:02:45,030 how has the university thought about accessibility what had been 48 00:02:45,030 --> 00:02:50,160 some of the processes for supporting students with disabilities on campus? 49 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:52,495 It's changed a lot in the last couple years. 50 00:02:52,495 --> 00:02:54,345 Earlier, we spoke with Dominic Dorsey, 51 00:02:54,345 --> 00:02:56,175 who's a director at our access unit. 52 00:02:56,175 --> 00:03:01,110 That unit is transformed over the last 3-4 years and they're much more 53 00:03:01,110 --> 00:03:02,640 proactive reaching out to students to help 54 00:03:02,640 --> 00:03:05,640 them in any kind of situation they find themselves in. 55 00:03:05,640 --> 00:03:08,640 Test-taking or in-class combination anything like that. 56 00:03:08,640 --> 00:03:12,945 So it really is different now in campus than it was back in the day. 57 00:03:12,945 --> 00:03:14,145 There was as a few years ago. 58 00:03:14,145 --> 00:03:18,330 As recently is that and tools like Ally have really been help to our group I 59 00:03:18,330 --> 00:03:23,205 think to get involved in that initiative or to those actions that we're. 60 00:03:23,205 --> 00:03:28,020 What's in the kind of the motivator behind that brief freshing? 61 00:03:28,020 --> 00:03:30,395 I know they underwent like a whole name change. 62 00:03:30,395 --> 00:03:35,115 So what's been motivating this move to a more inclusive culture? 63 00:03:35,115 --> 00:03:37,065 Well, the office had staff change. 64 00:03:37,065 --> 00:03:39,300 I think that's where the name change came from. 65 00:03:39,300 --> 00:03:45,010 But also, there are more institutional goals around inclusiveness and diversity. 66 00:03:45,010 --> 00:03:47,010 I think that has something to do with it. 67 00:03:47,010 --> 00:03:48,600 As far as web accessibility, 68 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:53,460 that's maybe a newer priority in the past several years, 69 00:03:53,460 --> 00:03:58,170 just as we use more technology at the university and use it to support our students. 70 00:03:58,170 --> 00:04:04,860 I think before maybe our physical spaces were more of a priority and they still are now, 71 00:04:04,860 --> 00:04:09,975 obviously but Web accessibility is definitely coming to a forefront. 72 00:04:09,975 --> 00:04:13,710 In course design accessibility has always obviously been 73 00:04:13,710 --> 00:04:17,745 a concern for us and something that we want to educate faculty on. 74 00:04:17,745 --> 00:04:21,630 It's just not always been at the forefront of faculty thoughts, 75 00:04:21,630 --> 00:04:25,890 and Ally has definitely helped us start that conversation with faculty and help 76 00:04:25,890 --> 00:04:28,920 us educate them on what accessibility 77 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:32,290 means and doing universal design for learning with chops. 78 00:04:32,290 --> 00:04:37,170 I think, too, that individuals have played a real role in helping push 79 00:04:37,170 --> 00:04:42,750 Ally and encourage more people to utilize access, 80 00:04:42,750 --> 00:04:49,550 for example, Emily is the Access Employee of the month and Jennifer is 81 00:04:49,550 --> 00:04:52,980 the SIUE employee of the month and they've 82 00:04:52,980 --> 00:04:58,110 helped make SIUE have large strides in improving those service. 83 00:04:58,110 --> 00:05:02,205 That's a good point. The junior workshops that you did then pointed Emily. 84 00:05:02,205 --> 00:05:05,085 Actually she did open a pull up of eyes in terms of 85 00:05:05,085 --> 00:05:09,085 accessibility for faculty and not really thinking about it in terms just as like, 86 00:05:09,085 --> 00:05:10,310 it's just close captioning, 87 00:05:10,310 --> 00:05:13,200 its not things just like so that it may help whole conversation 88 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:15,990 back there on campus for courses like conversations. 89 00:05:15,990 --> 00:05:18,280 I think like pinpointing faculty who are already doing 90 00:05:18,280 --> 00:05:21,880 this good work and know a lot about maybe, for example, 91 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:24,545 we have a faculty member over in Applied Communications Studies 92 00:05:24,545 --> 00:05:27,580 who his research is in accessibility and learning 93 00:05:27,580 --> 00:05:30,070 and communication and so just 94 00:05:30,070 --> 00:05:33,450 identifying those people once we have a workshop like that, they come do it. 95 00:05:33,450 --> 00:05:35,725 They're already passionate about it. Now we know them. 96 00:05:35,725 --> 00:05:41,080 Now they know each other and then we use that to help each other and spread the word. 97 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:43,270 That way, it's not just one person's research or 98 00:05:43,270 --> 00:05:45,400 one person in an office caring about something. 99 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:48,515 We're all starting to talk about it together. 100 00:05:48,515 --> 00:05:50,455 Yeah, that's definitely something I hear a lot. 101 00:05:50,455 --> 00:05:53,470 That communities of practice approach really allowing 102 00:05:53,470 --> 00:05:58,140 champions to emerge and influence others and train others and things like that. 103 00:05:58,140 --> 00:06:02,050 It seems like it's such an important process of that culture shift. 104 00:06:02,050 --> 00:06:08,110 So you talked about this shift towards a more digital deliveries, using the LMS. 105 00:06:08,110 --> 00:06:11,590 So you're all working with a variety of instructors. 106 00:06:11,590 --> 00:06:14,360 What are some of the challenges that you see? 107 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:16,855 For example, you're working in the nursing department. 108 00:06:16,855 --> 00:06:20,500 So when you think about accessibility in that context, 109 00:06:20,500 --> 00:06:21,700 what are some of the barriers, 110 00:06:21,700 --> 00:06:25,555 some of the challenges that you see in course designing that space? 111 00:06:25,555 --> 00:06:27,520 Well, that was one of the initial conversations we had, 112 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:30,280 was the general thought of all school of 113 00:06:30,280 --> 00:06:34,180 nursing students have to meet so many specific physical requirements. 114 00:06:34,180 --> 00:06:38,295 So accessibility isn't necessarily the highest priority all the time. 115 00:06:38,295 --> 00:06:40,690 But there have been some students who have registered with 116 00:06:40,690 --> 00:06:43,120 access and now are requesting accommodation. 117 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:44,980 It's making the whole school start to 118 00:06:44,980 --> 00:06:47,230 think maybe needing more proactive, as Matt was saying, 119 00:06:47,230 --> 00:06:50,170 instead of just reactive because it is a lot of work to be 120 00:06:50,170 --> 00:06:53,110 a reactive process for increasing accessibility. 121 00:06:53,110 --> 00:06:57,220 So working with nursing instructors to talk about things like it's not 122 00:06:57,220 --> 00:07:02,435 necessarily physical concerns but even just accommodating our working nursing students. 123 00:07:02,435 --> 00:07:04,930 They need more flexibility in the way content is delivered 124 00:07:04,930 --> 00:07:07,600 so that they can access the information when they need it, 125 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:11,050 where they are, whether that's on their break in the hospital, break room or wherever. 126 00:07:11,050 --> 00:07:12,430 So being able to say, well, 127 00:07:12,430 --> 00:07:14,260 this will help your students if they have to sit in 128 00:07:14,260 --> 00:07:17,245 a busy break room on the phone trying to study, 129 00:07:17,245 --> 00:07:18,760 here are some Ally. 130 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:21,040 Alternative downloads is a good resource 131 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,035 for them in order to have some flexibility there. 132 00:07:23,035 --> 00:07:26,695 Anybody else who's working with different types of faculty, 133 00:07:26,695 --> 00:07:29,440 different disciplines, what you're seeing as far as, 134 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:31,330 how are the courses here? 135 00:07:31,330 --> 00:07:34,330 Are we looking fully online, is there hybrid, 136 00:07:34,330 --> 00:07:40,345 is it face to face where they're using the Blackboard LMS is a file repository? 137 00:07:40,345 --> 00:07:41,905 What do you see across the board? 138 00:07:41,905 --> 00:07:45,450 All across, all of it. 139 00:07:45,450 --> 00:07:51,330 Yeah, I think one overall trend is the use of scanned PDFs. 140 00:07:51,330 --> 00:07:55,060 I think that's maybe an overall trend in higher education and maybe 141 00:07:55,060 --> 00:07:59,130 it's a residual of the paper document coming online. 142 00:07:59,130 --> 00:08:02,440 But it's a big problem and I think that's across the board 143 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:06,670 is the use of scanned PDFs and then our worker, 144 00:08:06,670 --> 00:08:08,860 no one is doing a remediation, 145 00:08:08,860 --> 00:08:10,285 but doing the education, 146 00:08:10,285 --> 00:08:13,420 that explain other options and other ways around it. 147 00:08:13,420 --> 00:08:16,705 I think Ally does a good job of providing guidance on that. 148 00:08:16,705 --> 00:08:18,390 You know that faculty can work through on their own, 149 00:08:18,390 --> 00:08:20,500 but we can also use as an opportunity to work with 150 00:08:20,500 --> 00:08:24,055 our librarians and other people in the university to find some alternatives. 151 00:08:24,055 --> 00:08:25,180 But yes, scanned PDF, 152 00:08:25,180 --> 00:08:32,175 if you had to find one thing that was like all inclusive issue its that, I think. 153 00:08:32,175 --> 00:08:39,300 Laura is working with those just in a program design and has had to deal with this. 154 00:08:39,300 --> 00:08:40,830 There's nothing they can do about it. 155 00:08:40,830 --> 00:08:42,745 If you go back in time, 156 00:08:42,745 --> 00:08:45,655 instructor had an article from 1987. 157 00:08:45,655 --> 00:08:48,850 So I went back to see if there was a digital copy of that and 158 00:08:48,850 --> 00:08:52,090 the digital copy was what he had was a scanned version because 159 00:08:52,090 --> 00:08:55,540 1987 they weren't making digital copies and so that's going to be 160 00:08:55,540 --> 00:08:59,475 an issue as faculty want to go back to older searching for research, 161 00:08:59,475 --> 00:09:01,135 go back to older things, 162 00:09:01,135 --> 00:09:03,910 they're only going to find digital or a scanned copy. 163 00:09:03,910 --> 00:09:07,450 So that's just something we'll have to work with. 164 00:09:07,450 --> 00:09:10,480 Yeah. I think that's why library staff sometimes 165 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,405 includes somebody who digitized those old materials. 166 00:09:13,405 --> 00:09:16,450 This is where way I think here's the utopia I envisioned. 167 00:09:16,450 --> 00:09:18,430 One day there will be no need for 168 00:09:18,430 --> 00:09:22,470 a scanned PDF and they'll all be digitized and properly tagged. 169 00:09:22,470 --> 00:09:25,890 But until that day, that's the problem. 170 00:09:25,890 --> 00:09:28,390 In educating too, because for the longest time, 171 00:09:28,390 --> 00:09:35,660 the course reserves up in the library or just all scanned as they were scanned digitally. 172 00:09:36,510 --> 00:09:41,290 Several years ago, we were trying to figure out how to do a search on 173 00:09:41,290 --> 00:09:45,145 these forms that they scanned only to realize that then they're not OCR. 174 00:09:45,145 --> 00:09:46,555 So it was like, "Well yeah, 175 00:09:46,555 --> 00:09:47,605 here's all your documents, 176 00:09:47,605 --> 00:09:49,940 but you're just going to have to do an old fashion manual search 177 00:09:49,940 --> 00:09:52,280 because it wasn't scanned properly." 178 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:54,460 So hopefully, that's starting to change. 179 00:09:54,460 --> 00:09:55,805 Jodie is right to it's not just that. 180 00:09:55,805 --> 00:09:57,610 The School of Nursing used to be like meet students where 181 00:09:57,610 --> 00:09:59,615 they are but helped them study where they are too. 182 00:09:59,615 --> 00:10:01,115 So when the fact that like, "Oh you, 183 00:10:01,115 --> 00:10:02,375 the Ally works in your room device, 184 00:10:02,375 --> 00:10:03,470 you are totally fine." 185 00:10:03,470 --> 00:10:04,820 It doesn't take into account the fact that you're in 186 00:10:04,820 --> 00:10:06,820 busy break room and you may not actually 187 00:10:06,820 --> 00:10:10,555 read this faster before the lecture you watch later on when you're in your second break. 188 00:10:10,555 --> 00:10:12,700 So it is more what's helped us, I think, 189 00:10:12,700 --> 00:10:16,570 to try to teach facts and to be more student focused and their decisions, 190 00:10:16,570 --> 00:10:19,600 what they do and we're going to always live with that several times. 191 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:22,230 I think that in this too we talk about being student focused a lot. 192 00:10:22,230 --> 00:10:25,140 I think the big part of it is not that, 193 00:10:25,140 --> 00:10:28,930 maybe they're highly student focused but they might not know what situations 194 00:10:28,930 --> 00:10:32,780 do then and every moment and then you got to have that empathy thing like, 195 00:10:32,780 --> 00:10:36,610 "Where are and just ask where are you reading this material?" 196 00:10:36,610 --> 00:10:40,100 I think that the Ally reporting helps to see what they're downloading. 197 00:10:40,100 --> 00:10:41,825 But maybe even just asking what; 198 00:10:41,825 --> 00:10:43,500 how do you know, when do you study, 199 00:10:43,500 --> 00:10:45,240 what do you do when you studying? 200 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,570 How you look because it's changing and will continue to change. 201 00:10:48,570 --> 00:10:52,915 Laura and I were surprised to find we did an online retention workshop. 202 00:10:52,915 --> 00:10:55,935 Our average age of online students, 203 00:10:55,935 --> 00:10:58,625 I think, was in the past two years was 25. 204 00:10:58,625 --> 00:11:03,220 So it's not your typical straight out high school students that we're serving. 205 00:11:03,220 --> 00:11:06,730 So it's probably people who are juggling families and jobs 206 00:11:06,730 --> 00:11:11,170 and it's our job to remind faculty that their students are in line. 207 00:11:11,170 --> 00:11:13,840 Is that a general trend? 208 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:16,390 The demographic changing over time, 209 00:11:16,390 --> 00:11:20,090 who's taking courses here and their particular kinds of needs? 210 00:11:20,090 --> 00:11:23,585 Yes they maybe so. It's hard to say no 211 00:11:23,585 --> 00:11:27,160 because online in the past was very much a one and done thing. 212 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:30,579 So you may have all point 11 be online during the summer semester, 213 00:11:30,579 --> 00:11:32,350 but generally they are going to offer up all 11 214 00:11:32,350 --> 00:11:34,390 online in the fall or spring semester and know 215 00:11:34,390 --> 00:11:36,310 there are entire programs that are exclusively all 216 00:11:36,310 --> 00:11:38,470 are under BS in the School of Nursing for example. 217 00:11:38,470 --> 00:11:41,285 They saw the benefit of having online as the medium. 218 00:11:41,285 --> 00:11:45,220 Then she stocked a specifics program in favor of the online program. 219 00:11:45,220 --> 00:11:47,305 So it's it's hard to say they change historically. 220 00:11:47,305 --> 00:11:50,485 I mean, it has but to say what evidence there is. 221 00:11:50,485 --> 00:11:54,425 It's hard to say right now because we've got a subsystem one of approach to now like 222 00:11:54,425 --> 00:11:56,530 whole entire programs are either being launched 223 00:11:56,530 --> 00:11:59,035 online or moving from place to place to online. 224 00:11:59,035 --> 00:12:00,585 As far as demographics go, 225 00:12:00,585 --> 00:12:03,520 I'm sure we could track the student age average 226 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,550 over time just from looking at the data we have on ONS. 227 00:12:06,550 --> 00:12:08,220 I don't know that up top of my head. 228 00:12:08,220 --> 00:12:09,285 It sounds good. 229 00:12:09,285 --> 00:12:12,580 But I'm sure we probably could. I wonder if it's- 230 00:12:12,580 --> 00:12:13,675 Worth it. 231 00:12:13,675 --> 00:12:19,850 Yeah and I wonder if people are, I don't want to say aging. It's not right.. 232 00:12:19,850 --> 00:12:22,860 I'm coming back for continuing education. 233 00:12:22,860 --> 00:12:23,340 Yeah. 234 00:12:23,340 --> 00:12:25,230 Do we have more of those students? 235 00:12:25,230 --> 00:12:27,450 Well, we also have higher-level programs. 236 00:12:27,450 --> 00:12:28,290 That's true. 237 00:12:28,290 --> 00:12:29,670 There's the doctoral programs, the school of nursing. The MBA just 238 00:12:29,670 --> 00:12:30,930 went online, the school of business. 239 00:12:30,930 --> 00:12:32,640 So that's also why it's hard to say too, 240 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:37,335 because we are offering more graduate and professional programs. 241 00:12:37,335 --> 00:12:37,590 Correct. 242 00:12:37,590 --> 00:12:41,400 So they would naturally be drawing those students. 243 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:42,810 But, yeah. So probably, 244 00:12:42,810 --> 00:12:44,730 the demographic's changing because of that too. 245 00:12:44,730 --> 00:12:46,410 But there's probably a lot of factors. 246 00:12:46,410 --> 00:12:48,570 In that too, even within every class, 247 00:12:48,570 --> 00:12:49,905 it's not necessarily specific program. 248 00:12:49,905 --> 00:12:52,260 In our MBS, students who just finished 249 00:12:52,260 --> 00:12:54,750 their associates degree and are immediately ready 250 00:12:54,750 --> 00:12:57,330 to go on for there BS through our program. 251 00:12:57,330 --> 00:12:59,490 But you also have practicing nurses 252 00:12:59,490 --> 00:13:03,270 who have been RNs for 20 years and are now coming back, 253 00:13:03,270 --> 00:13:05,250 and you have those same students within the class. 254 00:13:05,250 --> 00:13:08,550 So your class has to be flexible within every section to 255 00:13:08,550 --> 00:13:11,865 meet the needs of a 20-year age gap of students. 256 00:13:11,865 --> 00:13:13,095 So the audience is huge. 257 00:13:13,095 --> 00:13:18,165 It would seem that with a lot of these online only courses or online only programs, 258 00:13:18,165 --> 00:13:20,940 that when students are actually in face-to-face classes, 259 00:13:20,940 --> 00:13:22,500 they can tend to come up to the instructor and say, hey, 260 00:13:22,500 --> 00:13:24,360 these are things I kind of need. 261 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:27,840 With online only and especially like the MBA private courses, 262 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:28,950 they're only seven weeks long. 263 00:13:28,950 --> 00:13:31,170 They have to be ready to jump right in, 264 00:13:31,170 --> 00:13:35,055 and so we need to anticipate the needs of our students and whether they're going to 265 00:13:35,055 --> 00:13:37,080 be able to serve their needs and meet 266 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,735 their needs for completing the program successfully. 267 00:13:39,735 --> 00:13:43,290 The bottom line is we need to make sure our students are getting what they 268 00:13:43,290 --> 00:13:46,770 need and be successful in whatever way they're coming to SIUE for. 269 00:13:46,770 --> 00:13:49,065 Yeah, that's definitely something that I've heard 270 00:13:49,065 --> 00:13:51,870 in my conversations with other universities too; 271 00:13:51,870 --> 00:13:56,850 is that students that aren't on campus taking face-to-face courses, 272 00:13:56,850 --> 00:14:00,240 they maybe even less likely to disclose that they have something, 273 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:03,270 they maybe less likely to receive the supports that you would get. 274 00:14:03,270 --> 00:14:07,650 And so taking that more proactive approach to designing 275 00:14:07,650 --> 00:14:13,260 inclusive experiences can be really so important for those online learners. 276 00:14:13,260 --> 00:14:16,530 So how did Ally kind of enter into the picture? 277 00:14:16,530 --> 00:14:18,675 Where did you all kind of discover it? 278 00:14:18,675 --> 00:14:21,540 What kind of motivated you to bring it to campus here? 279 00:14:21,540 --> 00:14:22,860 Where did we discover it? 280 00:14:22,860 --> 00:14:24,359 I think on the access, 281 00:14:24,359 --> 00:14:26,160 on the edu cause access list? 282 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:26,595 Yeah. 283 00:14:26,595 --> 00:14:28,080 That was where we first saw it. 284 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:31,830 We saw it within our, like, early, early spring. 285 00:14:31,830 --> 00:14:38,565 Yeah. Once upon a time, 286 00:14:38,565 --> 00:14:40,810 we were looking at captioning. 287 00:14:40,810 --> 00:14:41,495 Yes. 288 00:14:41,495 --> 00:14:43,160 It all started with captioning. 289 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:47,150 We saw that we had this sort of hole in our support 290 00:14:47,150 --> 00:14:51,200 around captioning and it was one of those like whose job is it to caption? 291 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:52,520 Whose doing the captioning? 292 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:54,035 And it was like, oh we're not, 293 00:14:54,035 --> 00:14:55,730 and you should be, so hope you are. 294 00:14:55,730 --> 00:14:57,605 Like, here's a vendor. Good luck. 295 00:14:57,605 --> 00:15:00,110 That wasn't sufficient and we knew that. 296 00:15:00,110 --> 00:15:05,850 So we're like, okay, let's try to rethink captioning and the budgeting for it, 297 00:15:05,850 --> 00:15:09,765 and we just started out looking at just different accessibility tools. 298 00:15:09,765 --> 00:15:12,210 I know that Ally wasn't an answer to captioning, 299 00:15:12,210 --> 00:15:15,480 but it was like part of a package because we're like, okay, 300 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:17,025 we found a solution to captioning, 301 00:15:17,025 --> 00:15:21,165 a couple of different solutions that would work depending on what faculty needed to do. 302 00:15:21,165 --> 00:15:22,390 And then we're like, 303 00:15:22,390 --> 00:15:25,005 oh there's still a gap in how we handle documents. 304 00:15:25,005 --> 00:15:28,620 And so, Ally was one piece of that and there's awareness. 305 00:15:28,620 --> 00:15:32,880 So how can we help faculty make their documents more accessible and 306 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:37,260 also just understand why they'd want to and give some support around that, 307 00:15:37,260 --> 00:15:41,670 and just to complement the workshops and the communications that we've been doing. 308 00:15:41,670 --> 00:15:45,720 So yeah, it started with captioning and it went on to Ally and beyond. 309 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:47,560 Open the flood gates. 310 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:50,340 It was a question we didn't know we were asking. 311 00:15:50,340 --> 00:15:52,740 We were like, we need captioning solved and it was like it was solved. 312 00:15:52,740 --> 00:15:54,960 We were like, oh, there's other parts of this stuff. 313 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:56,970 We still hadn't thought about that before really. 314 00:15:56,970 --> 00:15:59,700 Maybe that's too simplistic to say captioning solved. 315 00:15:59,700 --> 00:16:05,160 It's not solved but we definitely met the beast face-to-face and we were like, 316 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:06,870 all right, captioning, we're going to do this. 317 00:16:06,870 --> 00:16:09,720 And so I think we definitely addressed like 318 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:15,060 the glaring problems with not having a specific process for captioning. 319 00:16:15,060 --> 00:16:17,430 So that happened and that was good. 320 00:16:17,430 --> 00:16:19,935 But yeah, Ally came out of that search. 321 00:16:19,935 --> 00:16:21,930 Yeah. So you're doing Ally, 322 00:16:21,930 --> 00:16:24,105 you've got captioning services. 323 00:16:24,105 --> 00:16:27,030 Any other tools in your ecosystem currently that 324 00:16:27,030 --> 00:16:30,570 you're using to support accessibility, inclusive design? 325 00:16:30,570 --> 00:16:32,940 We just adopted TextSmith Relay, 326 00:16:32,940 --> 00:16:34,650 which also includes captioning. 327 00:16:34,650 --> 00:16:38,580 So that's on every video that's ever created by the university. 328 00:16:38,580 --> 00:16:43,630 So students, faculty, staff or member can generate captions on their videos. 329 00:16:43,630 --> 00:16:45,380 As a good starting point, 330 00:16:45,380 --> 00:16:46,850 some auto captioning there. 331 00:16:46,850 --> 00:16:50,945 Yeah. I think you could, 332 00:16:50,945 --> 00:16:53,090 I don't know if you could add this to the list, 333 00:16:53,090 --> 00:16:54,920 but we have obviously there's 334 00:16:54,920 --> 00:17:00,710 the built-in wizards that check for accessibility in all of our documents, software. 335 00:17:00,710 --> 00:17:02,255 And then we have 336 00:17:02,255 --> 00:17:06,600 Adobe product that allows us to do some additional work with remediation. 337 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:10,965 Although we try our best to just create a good document ahead of that. 338 00:17:10,965 --> 00:17:12,240 I don't know. 339 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:14,355 Access might also have some. 340 00:17:14,355 --> 00:17:17,715 I mean they're able to digitize materials, 341 00:17:17,715 --> 00:17:19,380 paper materials and things like that. 342 00:17:19,380 --> 00:17:21,510 I would say that's a part of that. 343 00:17:21,510 --> 00:17:23,040 We're the software that you can think as 344 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:26,850 technically accessibility software, like Ally specifically. 345 00:17:26,850 --> 00:17:28,875 Like the worst thing, 346 00:17:28,875 --> 00:17:30,945 they have no students need accommodations. 347 00:17:30,945 --> 00:17:33,930 Which all of a sudden, there was a student through an online program, 348 00:17:33,930 --> 00:17:38,205 had to do a capstone and then actually give feedback to other people doing capstones. 349 00:17:38,205 --> 00:17:40,080 She's like, I can't hear 350 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:43,230 and I need to see you sell on the screen and read your lips the whole time. 351 00:17:43,230 --> 00:17:45,555 In just plain content too, they couldn't do that. 352 00:17:45,555 --> 00:17:47,910 So just using other tools inside of things you already have, 353 00:17:47,910 --> 00:17:49,410 is we basically use Zoom, 354 00:17:49,410 --> 00:17:51,030 and she was fine with that. 355 00:17:51,030 --> 00:17:54,015 It was okay to say we have to have a kind of split screen experience, 356 00:17:54,015 --> 00:17:57,480 but there's a trick to another tool into operating in 357 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:01,005 a way that the student was able to be fully part of the class, fully part of discussion. 358 00:18:01,005 --> 00:18:03,630 Everything was great. And basically it was nice because 359 00:18:03,630 --> 00:18:06,945 the video concept that she brought the other students to her level. 360 00:18:06,945 --> 00:18:09,810 So you couldn't like do anything, you had the chat. 361 00:18:09,810 --> 00:18:13,335 Everything had to be done via chat and when you spoke, you had to actually speak, 362 00:18:13,335 --> 00:18:15,375 and you're showing your content, you had to pause, 363 00:18:15,375 --> 00:18:18,585 show the content and then come back so lip reading could be done by her. 364 00:18:18,585 --> 00:18:21,525 She said it worked pretty well. 365 00:18:21,525 --> 00:18:24,630 Yeah. Multiple means of engagement there and 366 00:18:24,630 --> 00:18:27,345 expression is really bringing everyone to the same level. 367 00:18:27,345 --> 00:18:28,035 Yes, exactly. 368 00:18:28,035 --> 00:18:31,620 The faculty who was in that section said she has never had 369 00:18:31,620 --> 00:18:33,360 such quality discussion after 370 00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:36,555 every student's presentation as she did when she said this is chat only. 371 00:18:36,555 --> 00:18:38,160 Then, I had to speak into the mic, 372 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:39,840 everybody was like, no, no questions. 373 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:42,675 And once it was open on the chat, they went to town. 374 00:18:42,675 --> 00:18:46,875 She said they talked for like 10 minutes between each, talk through chat. 375 00:18:46,875 --> 00:18:49,020 So they might have even just shifted how 376 00:18:49,020 --> 00:18:51,480 they do their capstone, how they even teach that. 377 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:53,070 The instructor was kind of planning to. 378 00:18:53,070 --> 00:18:54,780 So just give that as an option; Do we want to be 379 00:18:54,780 --> 00:18:56,850 a chat group or do we want to be on an audio group? 380 00:18:56,850 --> 00:18:59,010 See and I think that's what UDL is really all about, 381 00:18:59,010 --> 00:19:02,400 is you're trying to shift to how you do your teaching or 382 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:06,120 how you design your experience so that it's better for everybody, 383 00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:07,920 and that's what happened there. It's great. 384 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:11,070 It makes those online courses more like those face-to-face 385 00:19:11,070 --> 00:19:14,700 courses where you actually have those real organic interactions 386 00:19:14,700 --> 00:19:18,030 between the students who are in the course and the instructor 387 00:19:18,030 --> 00:19:22,035 so that they're not missing out on that part of the learning experience. 388 00:19:22,035 --> 00:19:25,260 I mean, too often, I think having just online only courses, 389 00:19:25,260 --> 00:19:27,600 it takes some real effort to make 390 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:31,575 those connections and to build the social side of the classroom. 391 00:19:31,575 --> 00:19:34,890 I think when we have those accessibility features available 392 00:19:34,890 --> 00:19:38,025 in there that sort of bring down all the barriers, 393 00:19:38,025 --> 00:19:39,315 it's like you were saying, 394 00:19:39,315 --> 00:19:41,550 it helps everyone and helps the learning environment 395 00:19:41,550 --> 00:19:44,010 making it richer and more beneficial. 396 00:19:44,010 --> 00:19:47,340 So you have some of these nice aha moments with faculty. 397 00:19:47,340 --> 00:19:50,520 I know I talking to Mark earlier and he was talking about 398 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:55,200 how he started seeing the connection between accessibility and usability, 399 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:57,270 and coming from web design and things like that, 400 00:19:57,270 --> 00:20:00,420 and the importance there and making it part of your process. 401 00:20:00,420 --> 00:20:03,630 But then I imagine you've also have some moans and 402 00:20:03,630 --> 00:20:06,660 groans from faculty about kind of why are you making me do this? 403 00:20:06,660 --> 00:20:09,210 And so first maybe going back to when 404 00:20:09,210 --> 00:20:11,820 you kind of turned on those indicators in the courses, 405 00:20:11,820 --> 00:20:13,245 were phones going off? 406 00:20:13,245 --> 00:20:15,285 Was there a riot in the streets? 407 00:20:15,285 --> 00:20:16,980 What was the response there? 408 00:20:16,980 --> 00:20:20,895 It seems like we've always been reactive to things like this. 409 00:20:20,895 --> 00:20:23,430 We've always had to wait until somebody is needed. 410 00:20:23,430 --> 00:20:26,895 Then she found out we don't have any visually impaired people here, 411 00:20:26,895 --> 00:20:29,085 and suddenly if we get a visually impaired people, 412 00:20:29,085 --> 00:20:30,720 everybody's going react to it. 413 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:34,785 And so now they've got the ability to be proactive and a lot of them were like, 414 00:20:34,785 --> 00:20:36,810 that means I've going to spend hours 415 00:20:36,810 --> 00:20:39,615 redoing this because we don't have anybody who needs it. 416 00:20:39,615 --> 00:20:43,845 It's like, well, we've been trying to explain since beginning; start small, 417 00:20:43,845 --> 00:20:46,350 do a little bit here, but from this point on, 418 00:20:46,350 --> 00:20:49,515 make sure that everything becomes accessible. 419 00:20:49,515 --> 00:20:51,240 You guys can correct me if I'm wrong, 420 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:52,664 but from what I remember, 421 00:20:52,664 --> 00:20:57,655 the indicators got turned on and we use that as an opportunity to say, 422 00:20:57,655 --> 00:20:59,420 are you curious what these red things are? 423 00:20:59,420 --> 00:21:00,875 Come on in and we'll tell you, 424 00:21:00,875 --> 00:21:02,480 and that kind of gave us an opportunity. 425 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,265 Yeah. It was like a marketing spend. 426 00:21:04,265 --> 00:21:05,330 Yeah, you're right. 427 00:21:05,330 --> 00:21:07,235 And Jennifer had it phrased like, 428 00:21:07,235 --> 00:21:09,510 are you seeing red? 429 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,600 Turn those red indicators green. 430 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:14,905 It was a marketing thing. 431 00:21:14,905 --> 00:21:16,180 What a great way to flip it. 432 00:21:16,180 --> 00:21:19,570 Actually, I think we had fewer calls on it than I anticipated. 433 00:21:19,570 --> 00:21:21,070 Not to say we didn't have very many. 434 00:21:21,070 --> 00:21:24,340 We did, but I thought it was going to be, "Oh, boy, here we go." 435 00:21:24,340 --> 00:21:26,260 I don't think it really was. 436 00:21:26,260 --> 00:21:28,270 I would say these were ones that were like, "Catching this off?" 437 00:21:28,270 --> 00:21:29,110 That was the fun one. 438 00:21:29,110 --> 00:21:30,430 No. 439 00:21:30,430 --> 00:21:31,970 "I can't turn it off. How do I fix it? 440 00:21:31,970 --> 00:21:35,725 We'll go and try into our knowledge base like search engine, 441 00:21:35,725 --> 00:21:38,390 a key phrase I guess was, 442 00:21:38,390 --> 00:21:40,070 "Can I turn this off?" 443 00:21:40,070 --> 00:21:42,500 Things like "What are they? Can I turn them off?" 444 00:21:42,500 --> 00:21:44,960 So yeah, if you're searching that on our knowledge base, 445 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:46,700 you're going to find like here's what they are. 446 00:21:46,700 --> 00:21:47,990 No, you can't. 447 00:21:47,990 --> 00:21:48,140 No. 448 00:21:48,140 --> 00:21:50,890 No you can't. This is why you don't want to. Yeah, this is why. 449 00:21:50,890 --> 00:21:53,590 This is really why they're there to help you do, and really, 450 00:21:53,590 --> 00:21:54,835 they can turn it back to like, 451 00:21:54,835 --> 00:21:56,365 "here's what it's providing your students, 452 00:21:56,365 --> 00:21:58,829 and here's how we can help you turn them green." 453 00:21:58,829 --> 00:22:02,270 Yeah, I think that went a lot more smoothly than I anticipated. 454 00:22:02,270 --> 00:22:05,045 Well, then they're not wrong in the marketing behind it, it was genius. 455 00:22:05,045 --> 00:22:08,795 It was Jennifer's idea to play on faculties not insecurities. 456 00:22:08,795 --> 00:22:12,170 Insecurities, let's just say that. No one will hear this, it's fine. 457 00:22:12,170 --> 00:22:14,960 Basically, how do you want to improve your student experience? 458 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:16,910 Oh, do you want to have always red indicators? 459 00:22:16,910 --> 00:22:18,200 Do you realize they can't do X, 460 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,630 Y and Z and so it was really playing to 461 00:22:20,630 --> 00:22:23,310 their abilities to want to do better for their students. 462 00:22:23,310 --> 00:22:25,840 A lot of them reacted very positively, which is fantastic. 463 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:26,920 I'll tell you one gripe, 464 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,135 and you can edit this out if you want. 465 00:22:29,135 --> 00:22:31,240 I got it just recently, 466 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:33,445 and I was very surprised by it because I was like, 467 00:22:33,445 --> 00:22:35,620 "I understand what you're saying." 468 00:22:35,620 --> 00:22:38,490 One of our Biology, no, Chemistry professors. 469 00:22:38,490 --> 00:22:43,310 He was concerned about the alternative formats translating his handwritten notes. 470 00:22:43,310 --> 00:22:45,575 So he makes some handwritten notes. 471 00:22:45,575 --> 00:22:47,975 Now, we had some workarounds for this, 472 00:22:47,975 --> 00:22:51,320 but he makes some handwritten notes and he scans them, 473 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,900 and he's like, "There's no way," and they're all formulas. 474 00:22:53,900 --> 00:22:57,350 He's like, "There's no way it can pick up on my handwritten notes, 475 00:22:57,350 --> 00:22:59,870 " and I was like, "Okay, valid concern. 476 00:22:59,870 --> 00:23:01,160 What other ways can we do this?" 477 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,230 So we talked about other ways we could make the notes. 478 00:23:03,230 --> 00:23:05,570 "Is there any you can do it on a video? Can we caption it? 479 00:23:05,570 --> 00:23:07,130 Can we do that?" "Yeah, I could, 480 00:23:07,130 --> 00:23:09,680 but I just like to just get these out quickly." 481 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:13,550 This has been my process for 20 years. 482 00:23:13,550 --> 00:23:16,880 I said, "I don't think it's going to translate your handwritten notes. 483 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,270 I don't think that we can OCR your handwritten notes, 484 00:23:20,270 --> 00:23:22,390 so let's talk about some other ways to do it." 485 00:23:22,390 --> 00:23:23,410 That's where we left it, 486 00:23:23,410 --> 00:23:27,025 but I hadn't even anticipated somebody doing that. 487 00:23:27,025 --> 00:23:29,020 Oh, yeah and it definitely comes up. 488 00:23:29,020 --> 00:23:32,050 Math instructors are notorious for doing a lot of 489 00:23:32,050 --> 00:23:36,250 handwriting stuff because equation editors can be a little bit clumsy, 490 00:23:36,250 --> 00:23:40,780 so you do see a lot of math in handwriting. 491 00:23:40,780 --> 00:23:43,585 There is some software out there that is designed to 492 00:23:43,585 --> 00:23:47,820 translate handwritten equations into text, 493 00:23:47,820 --> 00:23:50,750 just like any kind of automated conversion stuff. 494 00:23:50,750 --> 00:23:52,370 It can depend on how clear that 495 00:23:52,370 --> 00:23:55,640 chicken scratch is and how legible it is and things like that, 496 00:23:55,640 --> 00:24:02,030 but it's definitely an area of concern and focus for some of this technology stuff, 497 00:24:02,030 --> 00:24:04,715 is situations like that. 498 00:24:04,715 --> 00:24:07,880 There are lots of those complex situations, right and Angie, 499 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,760 We were talking earlier about some of the business school stuff. 500 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:12,980 Do you want to point to some of those challenges that you 501 00:24:12,980 --> 00:24:15,245 see in the content in the business school? 502 00:24:15,245 --> 00:24:19,759 Oh, yeah. Actually, I had a conversation with one of the CMIS instructors, 503 00:24:19,759 --> 00:24:23,150 and he was saying, "Is there seriously going to be somebody 504 00:24:23,150 --> 00:24:26,690 who's going to go into this type of field who can't, 505 00:24:26,690 --> 00:24:27,755 who is visually impaired? 506 00:24:27,755 --> 00:24:29,570 Why are we doing this?" I said, 507 00:24:29,570 --> 00:24:31,835 "Well, one, it's the law; two, 508 00:24:31,835 --> 00:24:34,714 we need to meet our students' needs overall, 509 00:24:34,714 --> 00:24:37,460 regardless of who they are." 510 00:24:37,460 --> 00:24:39,800 Some of the things had to do with the graphics, 511 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,440 the diagrams that were on there and a lot of what's in 512 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:48,290 the CMIS presentations were screenshots of different work tables and things like that. 513 00:24:48,290 --> 00:24:51,110 So a lot of that came to be a challenge of 514 00:24:51,110 --> 00:24:54,770 trying to what kind of alt text do I need to go into with this? 515 00:24:54,770 --> 00:24:57,590 How do we how do we make this meaningful? 516 00:24:57,590 --> 00:25:01,595 I can't just check on every one of them, mark as decoration. 517 00:25:01,595 --> 00:25:04,864 It's obviously not. It's serious content, 518 00:25:04,864 --> 00:25:08,930 and so that was one of the challenges I found specifically in that area. 519 00:25:08,930 --> 00:25:12,875 Along the same lines of challenge I had with the CMIS instructor yesterday 520 00:25:12,875 --> 00:25:16,805 is that she gets a lot of her PowerPoints from the publishers, 521 00:25:16,805 --> 00:25:21,875 and they're not making their materials as accessible as they should. 522 00:25:21,875 --> 00:25:24,845 Because you put a PowerPoint up there and it's bright red, 523 00:25:24,845 --> 00:25:26,540 and if you try to go through it, 524 00:25:26,540 --> 00:25:28,790 you'll have everything from images, 525 00:25:28,790 --> 00:25:33,545 little bars in the background as part of the design that are coming up without alt text. 526 00:25:33,545 --> 00:25:38,435 I think I had over 300 PowerPoints that only had 30 slides on it, 527 00:25:38,435 --> 00:25:42,560 and because it was all that in the background, that was the problem. 528 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:46,490 It's like faculty don't have time to to deal with it. 529 00:25:46,490 --> 00:25:50,300 They shouldn't be. That's a spot where you have the power, 530 00:25:50,300 --> 00:25:51,740 I think as the faculty member, 531 00:25:51,740 --> 00:25:54,395 as a department, as an institution, "No, thank you. 532 00:25:54,395 --> 00:25:57,770 We don't want your material if you cannot comply with these standards." 533 00:25:57,770 --> 00:25:59,915 It amazes me that they don't. 534 00:25:59,915 --> 00:26:04,130 Professionals like Wall Street Journal, Harvard Business Review, 535 00:26:04,130 --> 00:26:07,250 they're not tagging their PDF files, 536 00:26:07,250 --> 00:26:11,855 and they're not going to until someone starts yelling about it. 537 00:26:11,855 --> 00:26:13,400 I think that's what you have to do, 538 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,475 empower the people, empower your faculty, empower yourself. 539 00:26:16,475 --> 00:26:18,920 I mean, don't stand for them, 540 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:20,630 it's not okay. There you go. 541 00:26:20,630 --> 00:26:26,030 Well, I had one instructor who was sharing documents for a capstone course, and really, 542 00:26:26,030 --> 00:26:29,240 they were articles from Harvard School of Business, 543 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,550 and then they had something they missed, 544 00:26:31,550 --> 00:26:33,950 and New York Times and he's like, 545 00:26:33,950 --> 00:26:36,740 "Well, I subscribe to these so I'm just putting them up there." 546 00:26:36,740 --> 00:26:39,860 So we started having conversations about not only accessibility, 547 00:26:39,860 --> 00:26:41,660 but copyright and fair use. 548 00:26:41,660 --> 00:26:46,610 So I connected with the research librarian, 549 00:26:46,610 --> 00:26:50,600 and so not only are we taking care of the accessibility, 550 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:54,590 we're also taking care of being compliant with our fair use and copyright. 551 00:26:54,590 --> 00:26:56,375 It takes a village, I think. 552 00:26:56,375 --> 00:26:59,480 It takes a village to raise accessibility. 553 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,510 I mean, the instructor didn't know what he didn't know. 554 00:27:02,510 --> 00:27:03,455 That's right, yeah. 555 00:27:03,455 --> 00:27:04,955 I had an instructor tell me, 556 00:27:04,955 --> 00:27:06,515 "I know my content, 557 00:27:06,515 --> 00:27:09,860 but I never did any courses on the pedagogy side of that." 558 00:27:09,860 --> 00:27:11,390 so those kinds of things are really 559 00:27:11,390 --> 00:27:13,550 where we're here to help. We're here to help with those things. 560 00:27:13,550 --> 00:27:16,040 Exactly, that's what we're here for. 561 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:17,780 What about on the flip side of it, 562 00:27:17,780 --> 00:27:21,950 this kind of student-facing part of it, the alternative formats. 563 00:27:21,950 --> 00:27:24,155 What have you seen? 564 00:27:24,155 --> 00:27:27,830 Have you gotten any feedback from students about using those formats? 565 00:27:27,830 --> 00:27:31,640 What do you see from an instructional designer perspective, 566 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,010 the value of those alternative formats? 567 00:27:34,010 --> 00:27:36,660 They don't let us talk to the students. 568 00:27:37,150 --> 00:27:39,410 From those reports, though? 569 00:27:39,410 --> 00:27:45,095 I was so surprised to see how few people were downloading the MP3 versions of a text. 570 00:27:45,095 --> 00:27:48,860 I thought for sure that would be the number one downloaded, 571 00:27:48,860 --> 00:27:51,110 but it was, let's see if I can remember. 572 00:27:51,110 --> 00:27:53,150 I missed part of the session today. 573 00:27:53,150 --> 00:27:55,220 Was it the CR PDF? 574 00:27:55,220 --> 00:27:55,970 Tagged PDF. 575 00:27:55,970 --> 00:27:56,900 Tagged PDF. 576 00:27:56,900 --> 00:27:57,995 It's a tagged PDF. 577 00:27:57,995 --> 00:28:00,785 Yeah, that's what it was during our first review, too. 578 00:28:00,785 --> 00:28:02,150 I was surprised by that, 579 00:28:02,150 --> 00:28:03,290 but I guess that makes sense. 580 00:28:03,290 --> 00:28:05,255 They're probably getting it down for their, 581 00:28:05,255 --> 00:28:07,535 maybe some mobile viewing or something like that. 582 00:28:07,535 --> 00:28:10,805 Well, sometimes they go through and the first thing on the list, they click on that. 583 00:28:10,805 --> 00:28:13,670 They're not necessarily going all the way to the bottom and going, "Oh, look, 584 00:28:13,670 --> 00:28:15,920 I have this," especially if they're not on a mobile device 585 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,455 and they have to scroll a little bit to get to see that, 586 00:28:18,455 --> 00:28:21,755 but I know the response for some of the students today, 587 00:28:21,755 --> 00:28:23,090 just finding out about it, 588 00:28:23,090 --> 00:28:25,910 "You were really excited about this." 589 00:28:25,910 --> 00:28:28,940 First I'm like, "No, really. You got to see this. 590 00:28:28,940 --> 00:28:31,310 This is a great study opportunity, 591 00:28:31,310 --> 00:28:34,640 and you can listen to it while you're reading it and everything." 592 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,310 So you got two modalities of having 593 00:28:37,310 --> 00:28:40,910 this information coming in and then you can do it all at your own pace. 594 00:28:40,910 --> 00:28:44,795 You don't have to steer and try to do it all at one, 595 00:28:44,795 --> 00:28:46,160 eat the elephant all at one time. 596 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,215 You can eat it one bite at a time. 597 00:28:48,215 --> 00:28:50,180 We talked to a student at the beginning of 598 00:28:50,180 --> 00:28:52,685 the semester when we had a booth for welcome week, 599 00:28:52,685 --> 00:28:55,205 and she was excited because she's dyslexic, 600 00:28:55,205 --> 00:28:57,905 and she was really excited about being able to have 601 00:28:57,905 --> 00:29:01,880 a print version and an audio version so she can listen and read at the same time. 602 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,810 Same thing with the students were English is their second language, 603 00:29:05,810 --> 00:29:08,300 is that if they don't read as well as they hear, 604 00:29:08,300 --> 00:29:09,680 they can hear it at the same time. 605 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,710 So we've had a few students interested in both because of it. 606 00:29:12,710 --> 00:29:14,360 It's not a learning disability, necessarily. 607 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:19,610 It is just the way things are and that's helping those students. 608 00:29:19,610 --> 00:29:23,405 I think once they learn and they know what the project is really all about, 609 00:29:23,405 --> 00:29:26,570 I think they're just too afraid to click that little a after their documents. 610 00:29:26,570 --> 00:29:28,595 I don't know what they think is going to happen. 611 00:29:28,595 --> 00:29:31,475 I think more people are clicking that than, 612 00:29:31,475 --> 00:29:33,110 maybe we assume, too. 613 00:29:33,110 --> 00:29:37,835 Just by looking at the recording and also when we talk to them at the last event, 614 00:29:37,835 --> 00:29:41,060 "Oh yeah, I've seen that," I had so many students tell me "Yeah, 615 00:29:41,060 --> 00:29:42,800 I've seen that, " or "I know what that is," 616 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:44,795 and I was surprised because I thought it would be us 617 00:29:44,795 --> 00:29:49,595 just promoting it and letting them know that it exists and like, "Oh, yeah." 618 00:29:49,595 --> 00:29:53,575 I think more people are probably clicking it than we give them credit for. 619 00:29:53,575 --> 00:29:58,210 I mean, yeah, you can look at the data review and see that they are. 620 00:29:58,210 --> 00:29:59,740 I think the exciting thing is about 621 00:29:59,740 --> 00:30:02,350 today's experience of being able to share it with a few people. 622 00:30:02,350 --> 00:30:06,800 We may not have been able to reach more than half of our remit. 623 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:08,270 We reached a small chunk of them, 624 00:30:08,270 --> 00:30:10,070 but they're going to tell their other friends that 625 00:30:10,070 --> 00:30:12,140 they are in classes with, "Hey, did you see this? 626 00:30:12,140 --> 00:30:16,880 This is really cool." It may not even necessarily be something they use, 627 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:18,710 but they may know somebody who needs it, 628 00:30:18,710 --> 00:30:21,455 that it would serve their learning needs. 629 00:30:21,455 --> 00:30:26,590 Or you stumble upon it in your final semester and you're like, "Oh." 630 00:30:26,590 --> 00:30:27,130 Exactly. 631 00:30:27,130 --> 00:30:29,875 "Oh, should've had this." 632 00:30:29,875 --> 00:30:32,000 "Where have you been?" 633 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:39,245 We hope that they don't fall into that sad position. 634 00:30:39,245 --> 00:30:39,890 They might. 635 00:30:39,890 --> 00:30:42,120 That would have been me, for sure. 636 00:30:42,790 --> 00:30:50,750 So what's next then on your journey towards a more inclusive culture here at SIUE, 637 00:30:50,750 --> 00:30:53,435 you'll continue to do more workshops? 638 00:30:53,435 --> 00:30:57,470 Are you helping support some of the remediation of content? 639 00:30:57,470 --> 00:31:00,770 How is the team starting to think about this work moving forward with 640 00:31:00,770 --> 00:31:04,865 Ally and the other tools in your ecosystem to support this? 641 00:31:04,865 --> 00:31:09,860 I think definitely more propping up our faculty, and supporting them. 642 00:31:09,860 --> 00:31:16,150 So how you follow the guidance that we already have from Ally, and other wizards, 643 00:31:16,150 --> 00:31:19,225 and doing more with universal design for learning, 644 00:31:19,225 --> 00:31:20,680 doing more workshops around that, 645 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,410 incorporating that into our course design, 646 00:31:23,410 --> 00:31:27,425 materials and marketing, marketing, marketing. 647 00:31:27,425 --> 00:31:30,050 I mean, it operates like Diversity Day, 648 00:31:30,050 --> 00:31:32,510 where we can partner with other people on campus, 649 00:31:32,510 --> 00:31:35,600 because accessibility is about diversity. Things like that. 650 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:37,805 I just like to go back to like, 651 00:31:37,805 --> 00:31:39,890 it's the beginning of the semester, reminder, 652 00:31:39,890 --> 00:31:41,900 here's how you make your syllabus accessible. 653 00:31:41,900 --> 00:31:44,180 Now move on, you have some articles. 654 00:31:44,180 --> 00:31:45,740 This is options for that, 655 00:31:45,740 --> 00:31:47,105 and just kind of doing these pieces. 656 00:31:47,105 --> 00:31:50,220 Look, I'll text April. I'm so sorry. 657 00:31:51,300 --> 00:31:53,350 Because no one knows this; 658 00:31:53,350 --> 00:31:54,790 it's off the table, doing this. 659 00:31:54,790 --> 00:31:56,740 As soon as I heard it, I looked over at Jennifer, 660 00:31:56,740 --> 00:31:58,615 and sure enough, she's writing it down. 661 00:31:58,615 --> 00:32:00,715 I think you said partnering, sorry, 662 00:32:00,715 --> 00:32:02,710 with them, like Student Success. 663 00:32:02,710 --> 00:32:07,885 Maybe our Student Success Center offices over there, and partnering with them. 664 00:32:07,885 --> 00:32:09,700 That was a new thing. 665 00:32:09,700 --> 00:32:11,095 More partnering. 666 00:32:11,095 --> 00:32:13,610 They also do No Write November. 667 00:32:16,980 --> 00:32:19,120 Next year. 668 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,755 Come on, we have three weeks. 669 00:32:21,755 --> 00:32:22,940 We can pull that together. 670 00:32:22,940 --> 00:32:24,080 We have three weeks. 671 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:25,940 I think we're in a cool position, too, 672 00:32:25,940 --> 00:32:28,340 in our department because it's sometimes 673 00:32:28,340 --> 00:32:31,925 easier to start to push things like this when something is new, 674 00:32:31,925 --> 00:32:36,590 and we work with new programs and new courses that have not been taught here before, 675 00:32:36,590 --> 00:32:39,500 and we get to touch new faculty with orientation. 676 00:32:39,500 --> 00:32:41,600 So hitting the new people, hitting the new programs, 677 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:43,520 hitting the new courses so that it's just there, 678 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,280 it becomes part of what you do, a part of your practice, 679 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:47,420 as opposed to like, "Oh, 680 00:32:47,420 --> 00:32:49,265 take this course that you've been working on, 681 00:32:49,265 --> 00:32:50,450 and you've taught it seven times, 682 00:32:50,450 --> 00:32:51,530 and now we're going to go through this with 683 00:32:51,530 --> 00:32:53,810 a fine-toothed comb and help you fix all the issues." 684 00:32:53,810 --> 00:32:55,085 We have to do that as well, 685 00:32:55,085 --> 00:32:58,535 but it can trickle up from the new stuff, too. 686 00:32:58,535 --> 00:33:00,500 It's all education. It's marketing, 687 00:33:00,500 --> 00:33:02,690 it's workshops, it's supporting faculty and students. 688 00:33:02,690 --> 00:33:04,280 It's changing the way you do things, 689 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:06,500 educating people and continuing to do so, 690 00:33:06,500 --> 00:33:08,780 and partnering with the Student Success Center, 691 00:33:08,780 --> 00:33:11,630 that's a great thing; just finding partners across campus. 692 00:33:11,630 --> 00:33:13,520 Because when we first started talking about this, 693 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:15,485 we felt like we were on our own doing this. 694 00:33:15,485 --> 00:33:18,650 We felt weird that our office should be the torchbearer. 695 00:33:18,650 --> 00:33:21,980 So it was very nice to partner with Dominic and other offices. 696 00:33:21,980 --> 00:33:23,450 We knew that they had a similar interest, 697 00:33:23,450 --> 00:33:25,625 and they wanted to improve things on campus. 698 00:33:25,625 --> 00:33:28,535 We still have a ways to go, but we're much further than we were. 699 00:33:28,535 --> 00:33:29,720 The more you talk to people, 700 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,945 the more you see how similar your interests are. 701 00:33:32,945 --> 00:33:35,030 Obviously, we're all here for the students. 702 00:33:35,030 --> 00:33:37,010 So the more you talk with them, 703 00:33:37,010 --> 00:33:42,365 the more you see how you can align your work and your passions and get stuff done. 704 00:33:42,365 --> 00:33:44,750 I feel like I have a unique opportunity as the new kid on 705 00:33:44,750 --> 00:33:47,210 the block and being dedicated just for the School of Business 706 00:33:47,210 --> 00:33:50,180 and the MBA courses that are rolling out 707 00:33:50,180 --> 00:33:53,150 they're having to shift from being eight-week courses down to seven-week courses, 708 00:33:53,150 --> 00:33:56,720 they're having to really go through those courses and rebuild them. 709 00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,470 So I get to have a lot of those interactions with the instructors. 710 00:34:00,470 --> 00:34:02,285 They're like, "Oh, we finally have 711 00:34:02,285 --> 00:34:05,330 our own instructional designer that's just for the School of Business." 712 00:34:05,330 --> 00:34:06,920 They're excited about having that, 713 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,320 and so I get to have the opportunity of working with them a little more 714 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,425 closely and to look over their stuff and introduce myself. 715 00:34:12,425 --> 00:34:14,345 So that's a great opportunity to say, 716 00:34:14,345 --> 00:34:15,710 "Oh, did you notice this?" 717 00:34:15,710 --> 00:34:21,230 I'm just trying to get to know the courses and not in a confrontational way or anything, 718 00:34:21,230 --> 00:34:24,020 or trying to spy on them, but I'm just like, "Hey, 719 00:34:24,020 --> 00:34:26,450 I'm just trying to get acquainted with everybody and everybody's courses, 720 00:34:26,450 --> 00:34:28,310 and I just saw these things. 721 00:34:28,310 --> 00:34:30,110 Let's take a look at this." 722 00:34:30,110 --> 00:34:32,480 That definitely is something that I hear a lot, 723 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,760 these opportunities for refresh. 724 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:36,950 It's always going to be hard to dig your teeth into 725 00:34:36,950 --> 00:34:39,290 all the old courses and the old content, 726 00:34:39,290 --> 00:34:41,900 but anytime there's opportunity to revamp 727 00:34:41,900 --> 00:34:44,810 that one PowerPoint slide that is looking a little dusty, 728 00:34:44,810 --> 00:34:47,000 and make accessibility a part of that, 729 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:50,840 I think seems to be a key kind of way to keep moving forward. 730 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:52,340 That seems to be the theme, 731 00:34:52,340 --> 00:34:55,310 is to just keep taking those steps forward. 732 00:34:55,310 --> 00:34:58,910 As far as the UDL workshops that you've been running, what have those been? 733 00:34:58,910 --> 00:35:02,720 Are those focused very broadly on course design experiences, 734 00:35:02,720 --> 00:35:04,760 and what's kind of the meat of that workshop? 735 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:08,585 They need to be refined because they're kind of too big, 736 00:35:08,585 --> 00:35:10,340 there's just too much to talk about. 737 00:35:10,340 --> 00:35:12,920 When you talk about all of the principles together, 738 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:14,600 just to give people an overview of like, 739 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:15,770 "Here's what we're aiming for, 740 00:35:15,770 --> 00:35:18,335 here is an example, and an example, and an example." 741 00:35:18,335 --> 00:35:20,855 There's never enough time, so I hope that, 742 00:35:20,855 --> 00:35:23,900 this semester, we can work to just break those down, 743 00:35:23,900 --> 00:35:27,800 maybe principle by principle and make it a little more active, 744 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,695 where we say, "Here's what we're aiming for. 745 00:35:30,695 --> 00:35:32,360 Here's one that you can doing in your class. 746 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,730 Let's pull down your syllabus and work through one element of 747 00:35:34,730 --> 00:35:38,645 your course to incorporate some of these strategies. 748 00:35:38,645 --> 00:35:42,050 We've taken a really broad look at 749 00:35:42,050 --> 00:35:44,840 universal design and it ends up being more of a seminar, 750 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:48,780 and I think it needs to be broken down and really get workshop-y. 751 00:35:48,780 --> 00:35:52,875 So we partner with our Faculty Development Center on that. 752 00:35:52,875 --> 00:35:57,680 Thanks, everybody for joining us on the Ally Tour podcast series, 753 00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:01,925 and good luck on your journey to more inclusive education for all your students. 754 00:36:01,925 --> 00:36:03,150 Thank you. 755 00:36:03,670 --> 00:36:10,460 Thanks so much to the team at SIUE for sharing a little bit about their story. 756 00:36:10,460 --> 00:36:12,020 As you can hear, 757 00:36:12,020 --> 00:36:16,100 common themes that really resonate across these podcasts. 758 00:36:16,100 --> 00:36:20,300 The interest in supporting not just their students with disabilities, 759 00:36:20,300 --> 00:36:21,890 but all of their students. 760 00:36:21,890 --> 00:36:25,100 Taking that universal design for learning approach, 761 00:36:25,100 --> 00:36:29,420 providing opportunities for students of all kinds, 762 00:36:29,420 --> 00:36:31,460 all abilities, all needs, 763 00:36:31,460 --> 00:36:38,179 to leverage alternative formats to have access to accessible content that's more usable, 764 00:36:38,179 --> 00:36:42,485 that's going to help them be more successful in higher education. 765 00:36:42,485 --> 00:36:47,165 So with this, we're signing off for 2019. 766 00:36:47,165 --> 00:36:49,715 It's been a great, great journey, 767 00:36:49,715 --> 00:36:54,830 and we're excited as we move into 2020 to bring a new focus to data and 768 00:36:54,830 --> 00:37:00,530 research to really take advantage of the rich stories that we learned about, 769 00:37:00,530 --> 00:37:03,740 that we heard about on our journey and use that 770 00:37:03,740 --> 00:37:08,210 as qualitative data to contextualize and bring 771 00:37:08,210 --> 00:37:11,240 meaning to some of the quantitative data and 772 00:37:11,240 --> 00:37:16,385 investigations that we're going to embark on in our data work during 2020. 773 00:37:16,385 --> 00:37:19,190 Look forward to reconnecting with folks and 774 00:37:19,190 --> 00:37:24,240 continuing on our journey on the road to inclusivity. 775 00:37:24,790 --> 00:37:30,890 Join the tour along with the rest of the Ally Community at tour.ally.ac. 776 00:37:30,890 --> 00:37:35,675 You can catch the latest updates on Instagram and Twitter at #AllyTour2019, 777 00:37:35,675 --> 00:37:39,679 and listen to stories of inclusion from our community champions 778 00:37:39,679 --> 00:37:42,830 on the Ally Tour 2019 podcast series, 779 00:37:42,830 --> 00:37:46,250 available on SoundCloud and your favorite podcast app. 780 00:37:46,250 --> 00:37:51,630 We'll look forward to seeing you at the next stop on the road to inclusivity.